Who's heard about

jmelson

#51198

Who's heard about | 25 July, 2007

Oh, boy! What a bunch of babble! "I've seen the future of the whole industry, but due to pending patent applications, I can't tell you anything about it except that it solves ALL problems, removes all barriers, enables infinite growth....."

Yeah, sure!

Jon

#51201

Who's heard about | 26 July, 2007

Sounds like our old friend Moonman. He used to rant on this forum about a year ago. He claimed to find a new metal that was never discovered before. One can only assume it is the same old made up stuff he blathered on about here. I like how they claim they found "it" and how it will solve every problem we have, yet can't even mention what "It" is. It's either his continued "mental metal" bull, or his consulting services. Either way, it's all sales hype.

Steve Thomas

#51202

Who's heard about | 26 July, 2007

That wasn't being posted by Earl, was it? I mean as far as username. Wasn't it somewhere around the time that "Dr." Shocker (cough, hack) and WM Larry showed up?

davef

#51210

Who's heard about | 26 July, 2007

Isn't "IT" that thing on eBay that each of us is seaking?

Mika

#51221

Who's heard about | 27 July, 2007

Haha. It is most annoying that "It" has been published in I-Connect (pcb007) newswires. Makes me wonder how serious they are. No explanation, at least a hint what it is. Compare it to NASA who always tells you what "It" is when they break the news with something astonishing in high-tech. It sounds to me that it is just a "thing" to get attention, like a bad ad from a lousy company. Or did I miss something in the article? /Sorry for my poor english & grammar.

Grayman

#51222

Who's heard about | 27 July, 2007

What was the "it" all about? Is "it" new technology? I hope Ray can give us light on this "it"

Can anyone ask ray if what is it?

Arman

Hussman

#51225

Who's heard about | 27 July, 2007

Oh yeah! You think Moonman is throwing his "POD" thing around? Not a bad concept, but he does tangent into his own believes on why manufacturing is failing , which spills into political views.

#51235

Who's heard about | 30 July, 2007

I like how one of the articles mentioned the Segway. That had huge amount of hype about how the world would be changed. Then it turned out to be a scooter.

I wonder if this "it" is PCBs manufactured in a printer. I think that technology is interesting, going to a printshop instead of a boardshop for your PCB's.

#51256

Who's heard about | 31 July, 2007

Guess we find out tomorrow. End of the world type of stuff, just like Y2K. I'm gonna start looting now, just to be safe.

hoss67

#51262

Who's heard about | 31 July, 2007

Looks like WM Larry took an on-line marketing course. This is worse than a Don Lupre infomercial.

#51267

Who's heard about | 1 August, 2007

Here "IT" is http://www.verdantelectronics.com/process.php

http://www.smtnet.com//forums/index.cfm?fuseaction=view_thread&CFApp=1&Thread_ID=10493&#Message42312

Samir Nagheenanajar

#51269

Who's heard about | 1 August, 2007

LOL, I remember "Moonman in disguise."

#51270

Who's heard about | 1 August, 2007

Wow, old concept that's been around a while. Not cost affective on complex layouts.

#51271

Who's heard about | 1 August, 2007

With the rising cost of lead-free, reliability and many other issues I�m sure �it� will get some serious reviews by OEM�s.

Comparing this technology with leaded soldering I agree with you Chunks. But it sure does make a whole lot more sense than lead-free and would indeed solve all the lead-free related problems and be very reliable.

This looks to be a sound technology (wish I thought about this).

#51272

Who's heard about | 1 August, 2007

So how do you think they plate the vias to the components? This was where the cost came in when trying this. Now how do you keep multi-layers together without putting undo pressure on you components? Thru-hole components still would require soldering. This may be an alternative for some, but most mfgers will find it as just bathroom material.

#51273

Who's heard about | 1 August, 2007

Don't forget rework, post production eco's and other mods.

Also if it's on a generic base, how do you spot slight misplacments?

Board shops have some fallout, now the fallout with be with the assembly makers and with components trapped on the substrate.

Grant

#51278

Who's heard about | 1 August, 2007

Hi,

Does anyone know how is this supposed to make electronic assemblies smaller? Seems a hell of a lot of work to assemble a product.

Regards,

Grant

Hussman

#51280

Who's heard about | 2 August, 2007

I guess if you never actually had the responsibility of really building any product,this may look like rocket science. It does sound like a great theory. But just like the Segway, under the right conditions, for just a few instances, it may fit a situation just right - if you are willing to spend a lot of money to do this on something you could spend little on using a convensional process.

Chim Richalds

#51284

Who's heard about | 2 August, 2007

Krikies me company has just moved me to quality department, me lads. Therefore I will be changin' my tune chap.

Gettin' back to this "It" donkey malarky, if you manufacturing slugs find a way to build it, krikies, you'll still get it wrong just like you do the conventional stuff.

#51285

Who's heard about "IT" (More like "Duh") | 2 August, 2007

Congrats Shrek - sounds like you found your heaven, blaming others.

About "IT". Wow, what kind of hype was that? I thought this would be something worth reading. Looks like a first year Project Manager thought of this. I agree, who ever thought this was revolutionary, never had to assemble surface mount before, let alone thru-hole. I find it funny how they keep quoting notable people to try and stifle the common sense people. I guess the worst part is they used a simple Power Point drawing to show the process. Why not actually try the REAL thing before telling us how great it is? I always have great ideas about processes and such, but until you get balls deep into it, you really only have ideas. I can draw a picture of an air car that travels 400 miles on a gallon of goat piss, but until I actually build one, I ain�t gonna tell you guys how great it is.

#51289

Who's heard about | 2 August, 2007

Goat piss now that is a great example of a renewable resource. But if the goat chews on toys made in china you have leaded goat piss.

Have you seen this article? http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/toy.recall.ap/index.html

I believe lead in electronics is a lot safer than this!!!

#51291

Who's heard about | 2 August, 2007

Yes I have. Leaded toys, anti-freeze toothpaste, cardboard biscuits, glue-less tires... the list goes on. And it's only about 1/1000th of what is caught. But in China's defense, why not sell this stuff to the U.S.? They boost their economy and kill off the U.S.

Now if we can only convince China to use "IT", we'd be about even.

jmelson

#51295

Who's heard about | 2 August, 2007

This process is going to make conventional rework, and most mods and ECOs impossible. You might be able to make some changes by patching a component across the exposed pads, but most of the circuitry will be buried. You could, of course, make specific provisions on the "board" for certain ECOs that you were expecting to need adjustments on, but otherwise, think of this as a digital watch. You are going to have to make a million pieces to make this worthwhile, and none of it will be repairable.

Jon

Grant

#51297

Who's heard about | 2 August, 2007

Hi,

The thing is I don't see, even if this was a viable process, how it would be better. It's still multiple layers of copper with components on one side of it. It's the same as what we do now, but just much more complex to build?

Grant

#51304

Who's heard about | 3 August, 2007

Grant,

The difference is that the plating makes the connection between circuitry and components no need for soldering anymore.

#51305

Who's heard about | 3 August, 2007

And that's better because? I think the guy that thought this up has never been to a board shop or knows what is involved with plating.

Why does he think it's the board shops that will disappear? Maybe they will simply build the board over the components, and it's the assemblers that will dissappear. This will make the supply chain worse because the interconnect building won't be able to start untill all the other components are in house. As it is now while we are waiting for a newest ICs the boards are being built and we start assembly when the ICs arrive. With IT you can't start the interconnect part untill all components have arrived.

Doug Philbrick

#51306

Who's heard about | 3 August, 2007

Not that I think much of this process concept, but I am curious Stephen why you think its good to start building boards before you have all the parts? You can't test a first article to make sure all your other parts are correct and in thier proper places. You can't ship the boards without all the parts...etc...etc. Why start?

#51307

Who's heard about | 3 August, 2007

I meant have the board shop build the boards. I'm not talking assmebly. With the Occam process it would be like waiting untill you have all the other parts then phoneing the board shop and then ordering your raw pcbs.

The interconnects have to be built at some point, why not do it in parrallel(offsite) with parts procurement.

There are times I've joked, "we have all the parts except one, the boards". I'm sure you agree in those situations it would have been better if the board shop had been building the raw cards while the rest of the parts were being kitted.

http://www.pcb007.com/anm/templates/article.aspx?articleid=17686&zoneid=80&v=

#51308

Who's heard about | 3 August, 2007

Well, Ray Rassmussen believes that "IT" may put China on it's ear. Not sure about any of you, but I never felt the need to splash water on my face whilst reading this white paper. Hate to see how he'd react to seeing a board going over a 500 degree wave solder! Betcha he'd pee his pants.

#51309

Who's heard about | 3 August, 2007

This is the last comment I will make on this subject. To me this occam process makes a whole lot more sense than lead-free. My whole life I made a living in soldering so I would hate to see it go, but we can�t ignore innovative new technology. Lead-free had to go anyway, and if you look at the advisory board (all lead-free opponents) they are all experts in their field and would not put their reputation on the line for a technology that doesn�t work.

Patrick

Hussman

#51332

Who's heard about "$" | 6 August, 2007

Lead-free is just another political stunt so the politicians can reap benefits from our following. Putting your name on a White Paper means nothing about their reputations - they just want to be closer to the sheepherder. They are hoping we will all embrace this new process so they can make money. When we don't, we'll be called "Resistors of technology that could free all of man-kind from every peril he has faced." Just read the little quotes they have peppered in their paper. Being green is not about nature; it's about the color of money. It's the latest bandwagon that many people know 90% of the population will follow.

Al Gore jets around on private jets telling us all to conserve energy.

Libya chairs the U.N. Commission on Human Rights.

Multi-Mansion owning Barbara Streisand tells us all to conserve energy by hand washing our clothes.

African leaders feast on Beluga caviar and lobster at a Johannesburg summit on famine.

Kennedy opposes wind farms that spoil his view.

Seeing a pattern?