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Automatic Paste Inspection worth it?

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it?

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Hi, We have had a few vendors push automatic solder paste... - Mar 10, 2008 by Grant

Automatic on your screen printer is worth it. Having it off... - Mar 10, 2008 by Real Chunks

I was never a big fan of inspection machines but we got a CK... - Mar 10, 2008 by PR

As you know 90% of defects come from the printer. This produ... - Mar 10, 2008 by Lysik

Wow, 90%? I've only been doing this 20 some years and never... - Mar 10, 2008 by Real Chunks

Philippine SMT lines are now using solder paste inspection m... - Mar 10, 2008 by Portadz

Hi, Thanks for the advice, and we are doing about 4000 un... - Mar 12, 2008 by Grant

I have a secondary question about automated 3D inspection...... - Mar 12, 2008 by Steve Thomas

Do you have the exact manufacturer name, me chap? ... - Mar 12, 2008 by Chim Richalds

I was wondering where you were hiding, It's an Omron CKD V... - Mar 12, 2008 by PR

It hasn't been in the past. But I'll let ya know more after... - Mar 12, 2008 by Hussman

In the past we would have defects from our CyberCentry and w... - Mar 12, 2008 by Hussman

KRIKIES Lad Hussman. cynicism and skepticism will only get y... - Mar 12, 2008 by Chim Richalds

Don't be jealous! ... - Mar 12, 2008 by Hussman

Hello Before I say anything. Here is one caveat, I work fo... - Mar 14, 2008 by JeremyS

Hi, Thanks for the advice. Does anyone know a list of ... - Mar 16, 2008 by Grant

Is that machine finna be on the line or offline? ... - Mar 18, 2008 by Peter Gibbons

Two what would you needs the 911 up start on that? On line ... - Mar 18, 2008 by Dr Shocker

Paste Inspection is critical to the overall printing process... - Mar 21, 2008 by 3DAOI.com

Hi Here is list of what I ve seen as the top vendors Alpha... - Mar 21, 2008 by JerryS

We evaluated (in-house) 3 Paste Inspection Machines: 1.Sie... - Mar 31, 2008 by canuck

Grant

#53942

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 10 March, 2008

Hi,

We have had a few vendors push automatic solder paste inspection devices on us in the past, and I have resisted until now.

However we have a new product with a micro BGA on it, and I am worried about yield, so am considering it seriously for the first time.

Does anyone on this forum have this on their line, and did it make a difference to first pass yield?

Regards,

Grant

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Real Chunks

#53943

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 10 March, 2008

Automatic on your screen printer is worth it. Having it off line or seperate machine is not, depending on your volume of product. If you have the time to pull product and measure each and every pad, then go for it. Feel sorry fot that operator when one gets by her. If you have it on your screen printer as 2D or 3D, it is worth it, since it's automatic each and every time.

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#53945

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 10 March, 2008

I was never a big fan of inspection machines but we got a CKD machine in a couple of months ago and it's pretty impressive. Cycle time is faster than placement machines (in line) and so far has accurately called out issues. Bring one in and Demo on your product, worth a look. I don't work for them but can tell you it's a hell of a lot better than what we've used in the past.

good luck, PR

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Lysik

#53946

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 10 March, 2008

As you know 90% of defects come from the printer. This product is well worth the investment. You will improve yeilds and reduce rework. Very important with micro BGA's. Also lead free components do not self center (during reflow) as well. There is very little surface tension with that chemistry vs solder with lead. Hence your print and placement must be very accurate.

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Real Chunks

#53950

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 10 March, 2008

Wow, 90%? I've only been doing this 20 some years and never noticed! So buying an inspection machine gets rid of my defects? I should have bought one long ago! I don't think so.

I won't even go into the lead free area.....

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Portadz

#53959

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 10 March, 2008

Philippine SMT lines are now using solder paste inspection machine. Its worhty. it enable to minimize defects. most common machine use is BPC707ADX. you must have.

Porferio

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Grant

#53980

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 12 March, 2008

Hi,

Thanks for the advice, and we are doing about 4000 units a month, with multiple BGA per unit, so manual inspection is totally out of the question.

It sounds like the replies from people doing volume work seem to think it's a good option.

I agree most problems come from printing, as that's the case in our experience too.

I might check it out. Thanks for the advice.

Regards,

Grant

reply »

Steve Thomas

#53982

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 12 March, 2008

I have a secondary question about automated 3D inspection...is it any faster than a printer's 2D inspection capability?

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Chim Richalds

#53984

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 12 March, 2008

Do you have the exact manufacturer name, me chap?

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#53987

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 12 March, 2008

I was wondering where you were hiding, It's an Omron CKD VP3000

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Hussman

#53996

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 12 March, 2008

It hasn't been in the past. But I'll let ya know more after Vegas.

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Hussman

#53997

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 12 March, 2008

In the past we would have defects from our CyberCentry and we would just make up excuses to keep running. After reflow the areas of concern exceeded IPC standards. I believe it all depends on how well the machine reads the hieght of the paste and how fickle you are with your SPC charts. Ahhhhhh, SPC charts...... I sure don't miss those.

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Chim Richalds

#53998

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 12 March, 2008

KRIKIES Lad Hussman. cynicism and skepticism will only get you so far in life me chap. a quality guy like me self appreciates that there are tools out there for measuring the quality of your processes.

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Hussman

#53999

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 12 March, 2008

Don't be jealous!

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JeremyS

#54046

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 14 March, 2008

Hello Before I say anything. Here is one caveat, I work for a 3D paste inspection vendor, I will not mention which. So you can take whatever I say with a grain of salt. Paste inspection will make a difference if you want to put the effort into it making a difference. There has been several studies done by the smta which state that somewhere between 60% to 80% of solder joint defects are caused by the printing process. This may or may not be true of your process. What you would need to do is find out if you need it and can justify the cost. Paste inspection does not remove defects from the board. It finds potential defects and can also. Help you to understand your printing process. By giving you the tools to work out how you can perform the dark art of setting your print parameters. To get a good quality and repeatable print. SPI is more of a process control tool than typical AOI system. It allows you to prevent defects at a early stage and can teach you to improve the process to reduce those defects. 3D paste inspection systems have several advantages over built in 2D inspection. The first being that the printer is tied up doing the inspection and cannot print another board until it is completed. A separate paste inspection frees up the printer to do what its there for, Printing. Another advantage is that the 3D system can pick up details that a 2d cannot. Today�s 3D Solder paste inspection systems should not be the gate in your process. They are fast enough to keep up with or even be faster that your pick and place. Where as built in printer paste inspection will certainly slow down your printer. My suggestion to all is check it out. do your due diligence find out if it would work for you or not. Most Paste inspection vendors are perfectly willing to put machines in for you to try. If they tell you it will end all of your woes they are lying. If they tell you it will help you control your process and possibly reduce your defects then they probably telling you the truth

Jeremy S

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Grant

#54055

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 16 March, 2008

Hi,

Thanks for the advice.

Does anyone know a list of the best brands of paste inspection products?

Regards,

Grant

reply »

Peter Gibbons

#54086

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 18 March, 2008

Is that machine finna be on the line or offline?

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Dr Shocker

#54091

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 18 March, 2008

Two what would you needs the 911 up start on that? On line kepin it real.

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3DAOI.com

#54137

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 21 March, 2008

Paste Inspection is critical to the overall printing process. There are at least 40 variables to this process. The idea of using only 2D printer inspection or worse yet, 3D (marginal at best) printer inspection demonstrates a serious gap in covering your bases.

Being an equipment vendor for close to 20 years, measuring the true paste height and volume with an accruate tool always provides results unexpected by the engineers. Does it fix all your problems? No, but without it, a rework equipment dealer may become you next best friend!

Good luck in your search.

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JerryS

#54140

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 21 March, 2008

Hi Here is list of what I ve seen as the top vendors Alphabetical (I work for one of these vendors)

Agilent Cyberoptics GSM Koh Young Orbotech

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canuck

#54225

Automatic Paste Inspection worth it? | 31 March, 2008

We evaluated (in-house) 3 Paste Inspection Machines: 1.Siemens 2.Agilent 3.Cyberoptics

We also evaluated the MVP and Orbotech off-site.

BY far, the CyberOptics machine performed the best. Gage R&R was remarkable, the s/w is second-to-none, pricing is also favorable. To "Chunks" and all others who believe this technology to be useless...get with the times, man. AOI and other related technologies have made quantum leaps in terms of performance during the past few years!

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