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3D Vision vs 2D vision

3D Vision vs 2D vision

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Has anyone seen any reductions in printing defects due to th... - Jul 10, 2001 by vance

Can�t comment on the Volumetric LSM [although a little voice... - Jul 11, 2001 by davef

I can't comment on the quality of any vendors equipment, but... - Jul 12, 2001 by Mark Charlton

In order to understand your printing process, you cannot rel... - Jul 12, 2001 by

Finally someone with great sense of what needs to be done! ... - Jul 12, 2001 by mugen

So if we were disenchanted with the names you mentioned, wha... - Jul 16, 2001 by davef

I am the director of sales & marketing for ASC International... - Jul 17, 2001 by MR

The obvious difference between 2D and 3D is that an accurate... - Jul 19, 2001 by

Woah! wat a reaction from the local Yankee community! ch... - Jul 23, 2001 by mugen

the missing link, (dunno how or why it was missing) http... - Jul 23, 2001 by mugen

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#7207

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 10 July, 2001

Has anyone seen any reductions in printing defects due to the use of a Volumetric LSM? What are the pros and cons to Cyberoptics LSM 300?

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davef

#7225

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 11 July, 2001

Can�t comment on the Volumetric LSM [although a little voice makes me want to say: someone commented positively on it in an earlier thread. Check the fine SMTnet archives]. The 300 LSM is expensive and has a lousy gauge R&R, but other than that, it�s rite good.

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Mark Charlton

#7232

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 12 July, 2001

I can't comment on the quality of any vendors equipment, but your question is really a "process approach" issue. What do you expect to find with that 3rd dimensional measurement? 2D inspection should detect the majority of your printing errors. The 3D equipment is good for process verification and machine or stencil characterization but it would seem to be slow and limited for in-line utilization or used in a random sampling plan.

Mark

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Steve

#7237

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 12 July, 2001

In order to understand your printing process, you cannot rely soley on 2D inspection. By implementing 3D-true volumetric measurement, a more comprehensive approach to correcting the process variation can be established. True volumetric / 3D inspection systems not only provide useful data for SPC purposes, but also allow operators to better understand the solder pads characteristics by viewing the 3D profiles generated by thousands of data points encompassing the entire pad. If speed is a consideration, there are both inline as well as fully automated offline systems that will afford you the time to fully inspect the critical locations without slowing production rates. With regard to the manufacturers that implement this technology, I can recommend that you go to the internet and search under "Solder Paste Inspection". ASC International, Omron GSI Lumonics and CyberOptics are a few you may want to research. One item to consider..Single or multi stripe (3-5) laser systems can only interpret volume. They tend to be more useful for simple setup and periodic sampling. Whereas, 3D - true volumetric systems tend to provide the necessary tools to implementing a well-defined yeild improvement strategy.

Best of Luck

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mugen

#7245

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 12 July, 2001

Finally someone with great sense of what needs to be done! and wonderful sense of where we need to go....

If 2D was sufficient, HE would have made this physical world of ours 2D too.... (tongue twister, nay...)

I agree fully with this Steve guy, 100% agreement, and thats why my guys have been looking for 3D paste measurement systems....

ASC & CyberOptics, no comments as of yet, when it comes to machine performance, in the battle field.... though I do itch to say, CyberOptics is really high priced, and ASC has perculiar business practices, that worry would-be-buyers of their machine(s)....

must be the competitive market stress, is getting on those marketing guys nerves, and burning the last remenants of the highly, sensitive neuro system, that connects the individualistic segments, of their respective brains, we do have a global slowdown here, guys....

Anyway, I suggest investigating, japanese 3D systems too.... helps to have foreign competition, to wakeup local US maufacurers, and break what little'O local monopoly they have...

Hope they wake up and smell the gasoline and burning oil fumes, pronto, before making propositions that either : 1) scare away prospective machine buyers, 2) leave the prospective buyers laughing like hyenas on the ground, wiping away tears of disbelief and amusement

Good Luck everyone...

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davef

#7273

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 16 July, 2001

So if we were disenchanted with the names you mentioned, what lean, mean, and hungry Japanese companies should we consider?

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#7275

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 17 July, 2001

I am the director of sales & marketing for ASC International. I am concerned by the remark that "ASC has perculiar business practices, that worry would-be-buyers of their machine(s)...." Please elaborate so that we can act swiftly to correct any unfair, unreasonable or unwarranted behavior.

Regarding Vance's original question, while ASC(and other vendors)can explain to customers the theoretical reasons of why 3-D inspection is a better value than 2-D(or vice-versa)it really gets down to the types of process problems you are discovering at your own factory.

If you like, ASC can provide you with a simple-to-use Return on Investment(ROI) model, in the form of an MS Excel spreadsheet. Simply input your own factory data regarding, throughput, defect type and cost of repair, and what your inspection investment your company is willing to make. The model will then calculate your estimated rate of return. In some cases, the purchase of equipment like ours can't be justified. In other cases, the model may point to other process areas that need attention. However, most outcomes will demonstrate that focusing on paste inspection and print process control will offer the best ROI.

Bottom line, there are two ways to make money: 1) sell more product or, 2)improve your current process and yields. Depending on what market gurus you follow, #1 may not happen for some time. That leaves #2, and the first step to improvement is putting in place a way to measure process performance. You choose - freeze all equipment spending and wait for the current economic clouds to lift, or make a reasonable investment in an inspection strategy and take the time you have during this slowdown to make changes to improve yields and profits.

We're all in this together, folks.

Mike Riddle ASC International

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vance

#7279

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 17 July, 2001

On a related note...... I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with 3D inline solder paste inspection systems. I've read about all the features and what they are "supposed" to do. What are the real-world capabilities of these machines?

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Damian Holzmann

#7299

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 19 July, 2001

The obvious difference between 2D and 3D is that an accurate volumetric measurement can only be obtained with a 3D measuring system. Laser line measurement in 2D does not allow accurate volumetric measurement. If you modify the aperture in a stencil or change foil thickness, the only valuable process control data that can be obtained is volumetric measurement. Printed paste deposit height is irrelevant.

Regards, Damian Holzmann

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mugen

#7323

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 23 July, 2001

Woah!

wat a reaction from the local Yankee community! chill out manz... I respect your sense of patriot belonging, to a great nation....

Ok, am still evaluating 3D paste measurement machines, for reasons couple'O other guys have previously, defined the virtues of 3D-santa-hands over 2D-height data...

as for machine capability, one jap machine manufacturer is CKD, and we are still in the preliminary stage, try oneline at

better or worse, post em comments....

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mugen

#7324

3D Vision vs 2D vision | 23 July, 2001

the missing link, (dunno how or why it was missing)

http: http://www.ckd.co.jp

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