Universal Genesis Inline7

#81420

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 14 November, 2018

When trying to save a program onto a floppy disk I get this error on the screen. The file was being continuously saved on HD but when I tried saving on the floppy as a backup all data was lost and there was no way to recover original file.

What kind of problem can cause this?

I have a 2004 Universal Instruments Genesis GI-14D with updated software running windows 2000.

Attachments:

bukas

#81422

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 15 November, 2018

hello Reckless, someone from IT should have better idea what went wrong, but my guess is bad sectors on HDD.

SMT Division

#81424

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 15 November, 2018

Hello,

u_APE.exe is a file located in your UPS folder, inside folder "bin". This application is also known as Product Editor. Thats all I can tell you without any kind of log about problem.

Best regards Ivan

#81427

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 16 November, 2018

It turns out the issue was programming in milimeters instead of inches.

#81429

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 16 November, 2018

Hi Reckless, good luck in your new machine adventure!

#81433

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 16 November, 2018

The adventure never ends. I have the sapphire coming next week. What CPH should I expect from it if I am mostly doing 0402/0603?

#81435

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 16 November, 2018

If you are gang picking from 6 reels in a row for the same part, so the head goes down twice for 12 components, which is easily done on the boards you have previously described, you should see 18K+ per hour with decent panelisation.

On an LED panel with about 1200 LEDs we were averaging over 20K, but we were gang picking 12 per time per head, so 24 reels of LEDs

#81436

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 16 November, 2018

Thanks for the explanation!

I'm trying to google and find out more about the sapphire not finding much info on it. Also, trying to better understand the whole philips/assembleon/yamaha history especially on the GEM Yamaha line. Not much out there. If you have any comments or history you want to add let me know.

The Genesis is really nice with the VRM motors. But we haven't started placing components yet. Hopefully today we will get first board complete.

#81440

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 19 November, 2018

OK, so all GEM Machines & MG were built by Yamaha, and imported in to Europe & USA and other places by Philips.

After a while Philips developed it's own machine - the FCM.

Philips then sold off it's SMT division and it was rebranded Assembleon. Assembleon carried on importing Yamaha machines, and also developing their own AX machines.

Eventually Assembleon and Yamaha parted ways and Assembleon developed more of their own machines.

Then Assembleon got bought by K&S, and has been rebranded again. Current range is iX & iflex. https://www.kns.com/Products/Equipment/Electronics-Assembly

There is no difference between the equivalent Yamaha & Philips/Assembleon branded machines except: Colour flash - Pink for Philips/Assembleon, and Blue for Yamaha, Logo in the corner of the screen in the Software, and stickers. GEMs are just YV series Yamahas.

Hope that helps!

#81442

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 19 November, 2018

Your Sapphire is a Yamaha YV112-III.

#81447

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 19 November, 2018

Definitely helps! I came across this Yamaha newsletter mentioning 16 nozzles for YV-112 not 12 (see page 5). Are you sure Yamaha didn't sell different models to Assembleon? Did they change models alot?

Also does the YSM40R really hit 200,000 cph in real world? 100 pcs/year seems like a very low sales target.

Attachments:

2016_11YMGNL_EN.pdf

Spoiltforchoice

#81448

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 19 November, 2018

Well the website says "Mounting capability (under optimum conditions as defined by Yamaha Motor)" which normally means if they cheat like mad and extrapolate to that number using the absolute fastest path from pick to place. How close you can get to that number will depend on how effectively you can keep all 4 heads busy, I suspect you would be doing pretty well to hit 150k. No gang picking happening here tho', rotary heads.

A company near me has just gone for a complete Yamaha line using 4 YSM20 machines, presumably not all configured for speed.

#81449

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 19 November, 2018

The old YV-112 equates to the old Philips Comet, which had 16 heads. It could only go down to 0603 imperial though. Here it is in it's early 90's glory:

https://tools.adoptsmt.com/equipment/?id=14777

Do I think the YSM40R will hit 200K per hour? probably, but only as a chipshooter part of a line - I think you are limited to 2mm high components to get that speed. If you go for the Multi head for normal components I think it is around 58K. We always got thereabouts on the manufacturers numbers on volume jobs, but never on smaller batches, when multi reels of the same part weren't justified.

Regarding the 100's per year, they have quite a wide range of machines, for a broad spectrum of customers. Most will be buying more flexible machines from them. Fuji and Panasonic are more into the mega volume market, I think Fuji are at nearly 50,000 units for the NXT platform.

#81450

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 19 November, 2018

Your thought about cheating like mad expresses what was going through my mind when I read that line.

#81451

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 19 November, 2018

Thanks for clarifying this for me.

I have one component that is 2.2mm.

I didn't realize Fuji NXT platform sold in that high of quantity. Not that many I see on the used market. Personally, I don't like this modular idea and prefer one device to go blazing speed. The Yamaha if it would hit those numbers would be a dream for me especially considering how tiny it looks in pictures. Although I have a feeling the price tag will make me cry.

Spoiltforchoice

#81459

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 20 November, 2018

Ahh but you're missing the key points.

The YSM40 is in no way ever intended to operate on its own, to keep those 4 heads busy they all need to be placing high volume parts, combined with a high throughput of PCB's probably in dual lane mode which infers it is only handling a few part numbers, with the machines downstream of it handling all the 1/2/3 per board/larger parts. That is why it is compact, it is essentially also a modular machine but its modules have a dedicated function right from the factory. Numbers will be low because many lines would probably only have one of these and then multiples of other models as well as having a bigger focus on their other more flexible machines that people really can use singly.

Flexplacers have an even bigger gap between optimum speed and what you get in real life because they can handle the big stuff you move slowly and the chips you can burn through at a rate of knots.

And that is where the true magic on the Fuji platform comes in to play. Each module can turn itself from chipshooter to flexplacer to odd-form placer on the fly (if I understand the Dynahead correctly) on the factory floor. Meaning your line is potentially always balanced between modules regardless of what you are building. It is literally the best of all worlds, if you can justify it. ASM do something similar with their machines but it is much more complex as they let you swap out entire gantries. By contrast the K&S/Assembleon AX machines let you add extra robots/gantries for a temporary capacity increase, the idea being that you might even rent them, or borrow them from a 2nd line with lower utilisation..

#81460

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 20 November, 2018

Great explanation! In my operation I have all tiny chips, 1 SOT223 being largest part but I do have 1 3mm tall inductor which won't work with this machine. Other than 1 part I could run my entire production on it. Also looks perfect for LED production.

I have heard with Fuji you have to keep the entire $20,000 head as a spare as its not meant to be worked on by operator. Also, the NXT modules run very expensive even used and the throughput seemed pretty slow for 1 unit. When multiplied by 3-4 units it started getting higher figures.

#81461

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 20 November, 2018

NXT's are never meant to be used in isolation - I've never seen less than 3 thin modules and 1 fat together. AIMEX III uses the same heads in one chassis if you prefer contained machines.

I've had lots of platforms over the years, and worked them hard, and I'd go Fuji if the budget supported it every time. Failing that Yamaha, as they are good machines and I know lots of good Yamaha people.

I think the best choice for you is what is a) in your budget long term, and b) what is best supported locally. For example Universal have always been very strong and well supported in the USA.

#81474

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 21 November, 2018

Talked with the local Yamaha rep. YSM40 has a real world speed of 100k, in some cases 120k. Seems about in line with a Universal GC-120? It is a smaller chassis but the lightning head has more installations. I like the idea of such a small form factor with mini turret heads.

Researching Fujis more as well. I have seen alot of posts on smtnet in support of Fuji but pricing on their stuff always seems overpriced when compared to others. There are alot of Fuji guys in Chicago surprisingly. I am finding more help with Fujis then Universals locally. Just not finding that many Fujis on the market.

#81475

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 21 November, 2018

You won't find many Fujis as people don't tend to let them go. Also we're all really busy so there are not a lot of good machines floating around at the moment. I am hearing 20 week + leadtimes on new Yamaha's too as I'm getting pretty close to the end of my patience with the platform my new company has.

#81476

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 21 November, 2018

What are they running?

The YSM and other current Yamahas dont have much resemblance to the old GEM series. Did they change their philosophy on machine design? The old gems seem big, heavy and overbuilt. The newer stuff seems smaller, lighter, sleeker.

#81477

Universal Genesis Inline7 | 22 November, 2018

Probably just evolved - just different needs at different times. Back in the day for example there were lots of patents around turrets so different manufacturers went different ways. These have mostly run out now, so different technologies call for different solutions. A GEM (except Sapphire) is single beam, and it's a big heavy beam which is moving quite fast, so the machine needs to be able to cope with the forces of acceleration and deceleration of such a mass, so it needs to be a decent weight, whereas some of the super fast YSMs have 4 much smaller beams picking up more components in one go, exerting less forces against the chassis.

Also, technology shrinks - the GEMs are an evolution of old Yamaha designs (also known as Philips CSMs) so you are comparing 25 years of technology change.

However, in the last place I wouldn't have complained about overbuilding as we had at least 3 machines around the 60K hours mark that didn't cause any issues.