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Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions

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Hey there I'm starting this thread to get opinions and comme... - Feb 22, 2021 by Marcelo Rotofrance

Well if you don't want the Chinese sh!tbox answers, don't as... - Feb 23, 2021 by Spoiltforchoice

The knockoffs are not as bad as the engineered ones. Anythi... - Feb 23, 2021 by Stephen

And then they make a new machine, and start the software all... - Feb 24, 2021 by Spoiltforchoice

Hi I understand your point. By the side of EEVBlog, I discar... - Feb 24, 2021 by Marcelo Rotofrance

I am completely aware about the lack of kilos, other goodies... - Feb 24, 2021 by Marcelo Rotofrance

Well to their credit Neoden has regional representation in t... - Feb 24, 2021 by Spoiltforchoice

Some of our coleages bought used Samsung from China instead ... - Feb 24, 2021 by Marcelo Rotofrance

We have a Juki 740 that functions but we no longer use. The ... - Feb 26, 2021 by charliem

Thank you for your offer, but I'm using old equipment for to... - Feb 26, 2021 by Marcelo Rotofrance

I would take old equipment over a hobby toy for my business ... - Feb 27, 2021 by Tom

tip: Just ask around who in China uses these Neoden p&p ... - Mar 02, 2021 by Tsvetan Usunov

Marcelo Rotofrance

#86293

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 22 February, 2021

Hey there I'm starting this thread to get opinions and comments from legit users of today's chinese pick and place machines, like Neoden K1830 and YX's SMT550/660/880 My intention is to take into account those sincere and honest opinions, to put aside those interested in promoting the products and especially the prejudiced comments just because they are Chinese products of the type "those cheap Asian s*!t toys!". The first feature that called my atention is the price-performance ratio, targeted to small companies budget. It is evident that mechanical design is based on reverse engineering (for not to say cloning)of proven brands (I have no problem with that...) To date I have not found cataclysmic comments on these two brands, its mechanics is well appreciated. Just some remarks abuot imperfections or issues on the Win based software of YX. Neoden software is based on Linux. These two brands started an active overseas marketing with remarkably more active diffusion from Neoden with representatives in many countries. Thanks

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Spoiltforchoice

#86297

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 23 February, 2021

Well if you don't want the Chinese sh!tbox answers, don't ask on here. Go talk to the the semi-professional, working out of their garage people over on EEVBlog. There is a reason the anti-chinese comments come up, it is because in relative terms, they are crap.. software, support, features, verifiable accuracy all not up to snuff for a key piece of capital equipment around which the rest of business revolves.

Every single thing on the machines is a step down from what you would get by buying a 2nd user machine from 10+ years ago from someone more established.

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Stephen

#86299

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 23 February, 2021

The knockoffs are not as bad as the engineered ones. Anything that would add cost is missing. For example removable panels for easy access. current limiting on servos. etc.

Rev. 1 software anywhere in the world is bad. But in China they seem to think that they can have someone write the program and then the programmer's job is done.

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Spoiltforchoice

#86302

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 24 February, 2021

And then they make a new machine, and start the software all over again, or change the hardware so much the older model doesn't get any of the software tweaks on the new one even if they are supposedly the same model....

Neoden bigger machines should be slightly better than the SMT550 machines, I think Kayo should be better than either and at that point you get a few other brands pop up that don't get mentioned on eevblog like Rison or Faroad.

You can have all sorts of weird things missing we otherwise take for granted. Tool changers, linear encoders, component libraries, job splitting for multiple machines, calibration routines that are something more than jabbing a nozzle in a bit of clay, onboard diagnostics, remote login to support those diagnostics. a few hundred extra kilos of stability and strength...

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Marcelo Rotofrance

#86306

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 24 February, 2021

Hi I understand your point. By the side of EEVBlog, I discarded it because it is contaminated by Neoden ads inside the forum it self. Also, it looks like Ausies love Neoden... ;-)))

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Marcelo Rotofrance

#86307

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 24 February, 2021

I am completely aware about the lack of kilos, other goodies and buggy software. I scratch my head when I read that they claim that they can do 0201 with belt drives and without linear encoders. In my personal opinion a KE family Juki would be perfect for my company's plant, also I would be perfectly happy with a second hand CP40. However the real fact of a third-world-south-american-small-company is budget limitations, no matter how healty are our finances. So I'm not comparing a K1830 to a Juki, I'm comparing it to a venerable Quad 4c and an ancient Panasert MPA 80/40 (those museum pieces works for us because we rarely populate something smaller than 0805). Is not what I want, is what my employer can afford.

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Spoiltforchoice

#86308

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 24 February, 2021

Well to their credit Neoden has regional representation in the EU, Aus and USA which helps support the end user better than email/QQ chats to China, although how much they really can do on their own is not something I could speak for. I suppose for you a BRIC nation supplier is just easier.

You can in theory import ex China big name used machines when they have upgraded their lines fairly cheaply. The clearest impression I have got from skipping through Chinese P&P videos is you really don't want to be a small contract manufacturer with one of these cheaper machines. If you have a your own products with a suitably limited number of parts so you can just load it up, manually set all the pick and place heights and other hoops these machines put you through to set up a job, thats one thing. Chop and change between multiple products, lots of new products and parts and its very clear a lot of time is spent tweaking/dialling it in.

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Marcelo Rotofrance

#86310

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 24 February, 2021

Some of our coleages bought used Samsung from China instead US or EU dealers. Those machines came demolished! It looks like when Chinese buy used western machines, it is the end of the line for those P&P, they use em untill fall apart.

Neoden have representation in Brasil, Chile and recently here in Argentina. Other alternatives with local support we have here are TWM (that blue small italian dalek... assembled in Taiwan) and DDM Novastar (painfully slow US machine... assembled in Taiwan...). Both more expensive, conveyorless and slower than K1830 but proven.

Guys, your comments are very helpfull. Thank you very much!

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charliem

#86325

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 26 February, 2021

We have a Juki 740 that functions but we no longer use. The price is right and ready to move.

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Marcelo Rotofrance

#86326

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 26 February, 2021

Thank you for your offer, but I'm using old equipment for too long.

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Tom

#86327

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 27 February, 2021

I would take old equipment over a hobby toy for my business any day.

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Tsvetan Usunov

#86340

Neoden and YX chinese pick and place machines, looking for users opinions | 2 March, 2021

tip: Just ask around who in China uses these Neoden p&p

All small assemblers use second hand Japanese brand machines: mostly Yamaha, Panasonic and Fuji.

The big companies only buy new machines.

Neoden are special niche toys made for the western noobs. No one uses them in China, as for small batches there are plenty of assembly places to do it on cheap. And when the volumes grow up you can't use toys.

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