Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.

SMTnet
»
Electronics Forum
»
Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line

Subscribe to Thread

I've been doing a lot of research into which used pick and p... - Feb 17, 2022 by Poly

In this website, you can find a lot of companies that deal w... - Feb 17, 2022 by Evtimov

One thing to think about is keeping the machine running! the... - Feb 18, 2022 by cbart

Look for local support. At some point you will need someone... - Feb 18, 2022 by jdengler

0402 imperial? all those machines should be able to handle t... - Feb 18, 2022 by DWL

Opal XII, MG-1 (and substitites from Yamaha available in Asi... - Feb 20, 2022 by Michał

Local support is just going to be Yamaha or Juki by the look... - Feb 23, 2022 by Poly

I bought a Philips Emerald-X from the US and switched to 230... - Feb 23, 2022 by Michał

Every now and then I will be asked if I remember that place ... - Feb 23, 2022 by Stephen

I was looking to swap a Universal GC60 from 240 to 400 V 3 p... - Feb 26, 2022 by Poly

I am using SiPlace S20 and F4 machines. Both of them handle ... - Feb 26, 2022 by Kristof_K

I think your question is the processing of FPC mounting, thi... - Mar 09, 2022 by SFGJamescui

Pick and place machines have been ordered. UIC Genesis GC30 ... - Mar 13, 2022 by Poly

Poly

#87624

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 17 February, 2022

I've been doing a lot of research into which used pick and place machine to buy. I'm looking at machines in Europe, China, USA as I'm based in Australia and availability is poor here.

I would like to place 0402 (1005 metric) and larger though could limit it to 0603 if required. Some micro controllers / QFN / FPC connectors. 50-100 boards per day. Mostly want the capability in house to remove risk around lead time / regional parts availability. Boards have around 100-150 components, single sided.

Working on 50 Hz / 400 V 3 phase / 230 V single phase a bonus. I have a large kaeser air compressor / dryer and decent sized clear span factory.

Should I get a Opal XII or similar Phillips / Yamaha machine? Universal Instruments Advantis / Genesis, Mydata? Something else? I'm mostly looking at stuff 20 years old and deciding what of it will still do the job fine. I'm planning on a DEK or MPM printer and an Essemtec oven. What's a sensible price range for the pick and place? There seem to be many Mydata or UIC Genesis / Advantis around the 20K USD mark. Is this a decent price / option?

reply »

Evtimov

#87625

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 17 February, 2022

In this website, you can find a lot of companies that deal with second hand equipment. Give them a call and see what your possibilities are. Not sure if anyone is dealing with Australia. Machines you picked and more 10-15 year old machines can place what you need.

reply »

cbart

#87631

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 18 February, 2022

One thing to think about is keeping the machine running! the biggest thing I would be looking at or into is availability of spare parts and tech support. Call the equipment manufactures and see if they are still supporting the machines, both with tech support for phone assistance at a min and with spare parts. if you cant get spare parts from them or via Ebay/web the machine life could be short lived for you. Here in the states Universal machines are all over the place and spares seem to be all over, also something to think about, if uptime/down time is a huge concern and you can get machines really cheap do to age, get a spare parts machine to tuck away in a closet, this could save you on tons of down time/headaches.

reply »

jdengler

#87632

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 18 February, 2022

Look for local support. At some point you will need someone to fix the machine. It is much cheaper to have someone local than to fly someone in from far away.

reply »

DWL

#87633

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 18 February, 2022

0402 imperial? all those machines should be able to handle that. Even an old Quad 4C can place those. As others have said, availability of parts in your area will be the issue.

reply »

Michał

#87639

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 20 February, 2022

Opal XII, MG-1 (and substitites from Yamaha available in Asia). Unlimited spare parts, cheap feeders, etc. MG-1 is faster, better for service (opinion of a friendly serviceman)

reply »

Poly

#87649

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 23 February, 2022

Local support is just going to be Yamaha or Juki by the look of it, and probably quite pricey. I've been offered some older Topaz and Emerald Phillips machines and I've got prices for the universals. The Opal X II is the same price as the Genesis, and the Genesis is a lot faster. Local support is somewhat available for the Opal though.

Is there a list anywhere of the differences between DEK printers? I've seen a lot of different names and model numbers and I'm not sure if I'm comparing similar models as prices seem to vary quite a lot for similar year of manufacture.

I'm also keen to know if anyone has bought a 240 V 3 phase American setup Universal machine and got it running on 400 V European / etc 3 phase power. That's the only thing putting me off the Universal.

reply »

Michał

#87650

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 23 February, 2022

I bought a Philips Emerald-X from the US and switched to 230VAC - you just need to switch jumpers on trafo in the machine.

reply »

Stephen

#87651

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 23 February, 2022

Every now and then I will be asked if I remember that place I bought that transformer. Often when we get new equipment we will get a new transformer.

Not only will you find differences between DEK printers of different names and models, you will find differences in almost all equipment often with the same model and name. Equipment manufactures are always tweaking machines.

And choosing a good dealer can be as important as what equipment you choose.

Overall I have found that sales brochures are more accurate than beer commercials. But not by much. In other words take them with a grain of salt.

reply »

Poly

#87669

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 26 February, 2022

I was looking to swap a Universal GC60 from 240 to 400 V 3 phase. I can get a transformer though and just looked at prices and they are quite cheap.

My 2 main options at the moment:

Option a: 1 Universal Genesis (2006) some feeders + essemtec oven + DEK Horizon 3i printer: USD$35K

option b: 2 Phillips topaz (yv100ii? 2000), 1 Emerald (2000) + LCS, destacker / conveyor, feeders + essemtec oven + DEK ELA 01: USD$30K

They are basically the same money, the Genesis is 6 years newer, is pretty fast and looks easier to program. The Phillips I get 3 machines so if something goes wrong with one I can just pull it out of the line. I've got no idea how the DEK ELA compares to the Horizon 3i. Anyone got advice?

reply »

Kristof_K

#87670

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 26 February, 2022

I am using SiPlace S20 and F4 machines. Both of them handle 0402 without problem. A newer machine, like S23 or S25HM is way better and accurate, S27HM can place smaller parts too.

We are using EKRA E5 (2000) which can print this size without issues. A newer printer, like X5, Serio way accurate and better. We also have DEK printer but in my opinion, EKRA is better.

reply »

SFGJamescui

#87702

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 9 March, 2022

I think your question is the processing of FPC mounting, this is a easy solve issue in China.

reply »

Poly

#87714

Which (cheap / old) pick and place for 0402, 0.5mm FPC small line | 13 March, 2022

Pick and place machines have been ordered. UIC Genesis GC30 and Genesis GX11 with PTF. Hopefully they work well! Not sure if there are any other universal machines in Australia...

reply »