bare board problem

first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input

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| first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | Wayne, I figured I'd take a shot at this before the Moonman hits it .

I always called what you see "doming" on the pads. Don't know what others call it. If you are seeing a high spot on one end of the pad as I suspect, it is typically caused by vertical hot air leveling. Ask your board house if they use horizontal or vertical. If the term "Gyrex" comes up, it's vertical. AND....it is very old technology.

If you are actually seeing that the pad is exposed on one end, or that there is very little solder on the pads, someone has their HASL process out of control. The hot air (or oil) is not set up correctly.

If you can afford it, consider a stencil with different aperture ratios. If not, try off-contact printing. Just MHO; let's see what others say.

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| first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | Wayne, I figured I'd take a shot at this before the Moonman hits it .

I always called what you see "doming" on the pads. Don't know what others call it. If you are seeing a high spot on one end of the pad as I suspect, it is typically caused by vertical hot air leveling. Ask your board house if they use horizontal or vertical. If the term "Gyrex" comes up, it's vertical. AND....it is very old technology.

If you are actually seeing that the pad is exposed on one end, or that there is very little solder on the pads, someone has their HASL process out of control. The hot air (or oil) is not set up correctly.

If you can afford it, consider a stencil with different aperture ratios. If not, try off-contact printing. Just MHO; let's see what others say.

Scott Cook scook@unicam.com

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| | first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | | | Wayne, I figured I'd take a shot at this before the Moonman hits it . | | I always called what you see "doming" on the pads. Don't know what others call it. If you are seeing a high spot on one end of the pad as I suspect, it is typically caused by vertical hot air leveling. Ask your board house if they use horizontal or vertical. If the term "Gyrex" comes up, it's vertical. AND....it is very old technology. | | If you are actually seeing that the pad is exposed on one end, or that there is very little solder on the pads, someone has their HASL process out of control. The hot air (or oil) is not set up correctly. | | If you can afford it, consider a stencil with different aperture ratios. If not, try off-contact printing. Just MHO; let's see what others say. | | Scott Cook | scook@unicam.com | | Sorry about the double post, folks.

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| | first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | | | Wayne, I figured I'd take a shot at this before the Moonman hits it . | | I always called what you see "doming" on the pads. Don't know what others call it. If you are seeing a high spot on one end of the pad as I suspect, it is typically caused by vertical hot air leveling. Ask your board house if they use horizontal or vertical. If the term "Gyrex" comes up, it's vertical. AND....it is very old technology. | | If you are actually seeing that the pad is exposed on one end, or that there is very little solder on the pads, someone has their HASL process out of control. The hot air (or oil) is not set up correctly. | | If you can afford it, consider a stencil with different aperture ratios. If not, try off-contact printing. Just MHO; let's see what others say. | | Scottster, you old sea dog. Damn, you really hurt me by being so fast. I really must be slowing down, but what great response by you.

Hell, I done forgot about Gyrexasauras. That name brings back shivers of pain.

Of course, all the old timers on the forum are just waiting for one of my eruptions concerning my favorite target. HASL sucks!!!

That's all I have to say about that,

Moonmanster

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| first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | You must be using the same cheap PCB vendors as my company! Scott, hit this one on the head. "doming" is what we call it out here in Portland Oregon. Now lets get ot business on dealing with this problem. 1. Reject the fabs. If they won't pick 'em up, get the home address of your rep and deliver them to his house ! 2. If you absoutly have to work with crappy fabs, you can try solder wicking the pads (qfp) to level out the footprint and allow for gasketing to occur. Obvously this is not practical for anything greater than a prototype run (onsie -- twosie). 3. You probably have solder deposits on the fab thicker than your stencil! This causes a standoff height causing solder bridging. What you need is less solder paste on the qfp. If possible create a squeegee profile which passes over the qfp at a faster rate -hense depositing less solder. But keep the speed normal elsewhere. I know mpm printers can do this. 4. Force this vendor through incoming inspection. use tightened sampling criteria or drop as a supplier. If you do not have a corrective action, this WILL happen again. 5. If possible explore OSP, gold or white tin plating. you pay more up front, but gain so much in the end (lower defect rates and less down time solving process problems).

Dean

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| first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | I think our purchasing departments all conspired to get us the same cheap boards. As stated by others, a faster squeegee speed and off contact will help. I had good luck at 25 mil with trapezoidal apertures. I'm looking at a certificate of compliance for a run of boards from a major supplier with plants from coast to coast. It shows an X-ray flourescent (sic) measurement of the HASL coating as min. .000276/ max .000352. If this were only true. You could see the doming and the x/y irregularity on the QFPs with the naked eye and not one board would print. Subbing another houses boards resulted in 0 defects. They insisted that the measurements prooved their boards were perfect! Anyway, everybody is right. If we accept crap like this the only guarantee is that we will continue to get it.

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| | | first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | | | | | Wayne, I figured I'd take a shot at this before the Moonman hits it . | | | | I always called what you see "doming" on the pads. Don't know what others call it. If you are seeing a high spot on one end of the pad as I suspect, it is typically caused by vertical hot air leveling. Ask your board house if they use horizontal or vertical. If the term "Gyrex" comes up, it's vertical. AND....it is very old technology. | | | | If you are actually seeing that the pad is exposed on one end, or that there is very little solder on the pads, someone has their HASL process out of control. The hot air (or oil) is not set up correctly. | | | | If you can afford it, consider a stencil with different aperture ratios. If not, try off-contact printing. Just MHO; let's see what others say. | | | | | Scottster, you old sea dog. Damn, you really hurt me by being so fast. I really must be slowing down, but what great response by you. | | Hell, I done forgot about Gyrexasauras. That name brings back shivers of pain. | | Of course, all the old timers on the forum are just waiting for one of my eruptions concerning my favorite target. HASL sucks!!! | | That's all I have to say about that, | | Moonmanster | Why Earl,

I did not intend to hurt you. But I cheateth.....I logged in late last night.

Now you resort to name-calling? Sea Dog? I am deeply affected. Although I "do" live in Florida.......near the sea. I am also a dog, so it is accurate, I must admit.

Almost seriously, now.....Your knowledge regarding bare fabs is legendary (at least in your mind--grin). Can you add to this discussion?

Yes, I've been around tooo long. Gyrex was my nemesis since the dinosaurs were laying eggs. And as you infer, horizontal isn't a heluva lot better--unless you go to a quality board house who understands how to run the panels through the hot air knives.

Hey Earl, trip down memory lane: First rev of Entec--circa 1989-90.....NO shelf life First rev of Probimer--52....nice mask First rev of SiPad Now....to the 70's XXXP....the "paper" boards we all got to deal with. Shelf life of about 1 nanosecond without warping.

How about Mil-Std; "bright and shiny" joints.....lol

Scott

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| | first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | | | I think our purchasing departments all conspired to get us the same cheap boards. As stated by others, a faster squeegee speed and off contact will help. I had good luck at 25 mil with trapezoidal apertures. | I'm looking at a certificate of compliance for a run of boards from a major supplier with plants from coast to coast. It shows an X-ray flourescent (sic) measurement of the HASL coating as min. .000276/ max .000352. If this were only true. You could see the doming and the x/y irregularity on the QFPs with the naked eye and not one board would print. Subbing another houses boards resulted in 0 defects. They insisted that the measurements prooved their boards were perfect! | Anyway, everybody is right. If we accept crap like this the only guarantee is that we will continue to get it. | | If possible, I would suggest checking a different substance for plating the pads, especially as your FP parts get smaller, or you move into BGA packages. OSP's have come a long way in the past several years, and I have had good luck using them. They provide a flatter surface, preventing solder volume differences pad-to-pad, and reduce the possibility of unsoldered joints due to the differing HASL height. I would suggest using the OSP if you can. It' also usually is sklightly cheaper than HASL as well. Shelf life was one of the initla issues, but it is now around a year.

Good luck, Brian Wycoff

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| | | | first of all what is the technical term for the small amount of solder on a plated pad. we are getting poor screen printing gasketing on a 20 mil qfp due to this solder not being even or too high in spots and not covering the length of the pads. any ideas how i can go around this to get a good print. currently i am building 2 other assemblies from this customer, all have the same qfp, but the other 2 are made at different bare board companies and dont have this problem. thanks for the input | | | | | | | Wayne, I figured I'd take a shot at this before the Moonman hits it . | | | | | | I always called what you see "doming" on the pads. Don't know what others call it. If you are seeing a high spot on one end of the pad as I suspect, it is typically caused by vertical hot air leveling. Ask your board house if they use horizontal or vertical. If the term "Gyrex" comes up, it's vertical. AND....it is very old technology. | | | | | | If you are actually seeing that the pad is exposed on one end, or that there is very little solder on the pads, someone has their HASL process out of control. The hot air (or oil) is not set up correctly. | | | | | | If you can afford it, consider a stencil with different aperture ratios. If not, try off-contact printing. Just MHO; let's see what others say. | | | | | | | | Scottster, you old sea dog. Damn, you really hurt me by being so fast. I really must be slowing down, but what great response by you. | | | | Hell, I done forgot about Gyrexasauras. That name brings back shivers of pain. | | | | Of course, all the old timers on the forum are just waiting for one of my eruptions concerning my favorite target. HASL sucks!!! | | | | That's all I have to say about that, | | | | Moonmanster | | | Why Earl, | | I did not intend to hurt you. But I cheateth.....I logged in late last night. | | Now you resort to name-calling? Sea Dog? I am deeply affected. Although I "do" live in Florida.......near the sea. I am also a dog, so it is accurate, I must admit. | | Almost seriously, now.....Your knowledge regarding bare fabs is legendary (at least in your mind--grin). Can you add to this discussion? | | Yes, I've been around tooo long. Gyrex was my nemesis since the dinosaurs were laying eggs. And as you infer, horizontal isn't a heluva lot better--unless you go to a quality board house who understands how to run the panels through the hot air knives. | | Hey Earl, trip down memory lane: | First rev of Entec--circa 1989-90.....NO shelf life | First rev of Probimer--52....nice mask | First rev of SiPad | Now....to the 70's | XXXP....the "paper" boards we all got to deal with. Shelf life of about 1 nanosecond without warping. | | How about Mil-Std; "bright and shiny" joints.....lol | | Scott | | Scott,

I do hurt easy. Be gentle, at least that's what I tell all the women in my life though quickly diminishing supply - oops.

Man, talk about memories. How about Seal Brite before Entek back in the late 60's and early 70's. The stuff almost worked.

Paper phenolic. What a material! What boards! Ah, the days of punch and crunch revisited.

Probimer, and all its problems still out performed DuPont's DF masks. I used to by Ciba's stuff, ilegally from friends, and mix and screen my own formulation just to get away from DF.

I still love bright and shiny, though I've seen little of the stuff in the past few years. Times do change. Of course, not you or me. Maybe there's a message there.

By the way, you aced me again with your latest posting. I was going to provide the same info concerning moisture sensitive stuff as I just went through another one.

Hell, I might as well stop posting because of you. If it weren't for Big Dave trying to taunt me, I'd probably just drift away.

By the way again, I tried to get some excitement going concerning intermetallics. Only Dave responded with his usual encyclopedia like brilliance. I'm just trying to stir the pot, as Dave says, and get a genuine guru on our forum. You know, like Englwhatsis on the IPC thing.

We talk and do so much about soldering. We need some more in depth personalities like the Brit. What's his name - Graham Naisbit or Nabisco - the guy that knows more about conformal and cleaning than anyone on the planet.

Keep up the good work and batten down the hatches as the huricane season is upon you just as the fire season starts here.

Enjoy,

Moonmanus

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| Scott, | | I do hurt easy. Be gentle, at least that's what I tell all the women in my life though quickly diminishing supply - oops.

I do not happen to believe this statement. I have seen you dodge many a penned "dart" on this very forum. Since I just cannot picture a man of your obvious breadth of knowledge and willingness to share as a bawling, shaking inbecile, I would challenge you to present fact on this public forum. A photo would suffice.

| | Man, talk about memories. How about Seal Brite before Entek back in the late 60's and early 70's. The stuff almost worked.

Know what? I was using seal brite as recently as 4 years ago, due to a customer's requirement---and I successfully used a no-clean paste on it for SMT!!!!! Interesting times......

| | Paper phenolic. What a material! What boards! Ah, the days of punch and crunch revisited.

Yes, I built the entire "Pong" program on XXXP in the early seventies.....for the younger crowd, Pong was the very first predecessor of today's Playstation and Nintendo video games.

Not to mention Lowry Organ PCB's........

| Probimer, and all its problems still out performed DuPont's DF masks. I used to by Ciba's stuff, ilegally from friends, and mix and screen my own formulation just to get away from DF.

Dry film had it's day. Until about '79, when I started putting my first LCC's down on FR4. It was then that I realized that dry film and Flutec PP11 vapor phase mat'l was not going to work well for me. Started looking elsewhere......

| I still love bright and shiny, though I've seen little of the stuff in the past few years. Times do change. Of course, not you or me. Maybe there's a message there.

The dinosaurs didn't change, either Moonman. they're extinct today. Hmmmm.......

| By the way, you aced me again with your latest posting. I was going to provide the same info concerning moisture sensitive stuff as I just went through another one.

You are far too kind. I just guessed at that one. Got it out of the back of a Marvel Comic book.

| Hell, I might as well stop posting because of you. If it weren't for Big Dave trying to taunt me, I'd probably just drift away.

Moonman, I know you are patronizing me, and it hurts me. Your knowledge base is why I belong to this forum. The forum wouldn't be the same without you. Remember, many folks BEGGED you to come back when you made your liberating stance. You 'ole hippie, you. I'll bet you have waist length grey hair and a beard to match. I can see a muzzleloader and a coonskin cap, as well. Kinda ZZTopish........

| Keep up the good work and batten down the hatches as the huricane season is upon you just as the fire season starts here.

My intent on staying semi-active on the forum is to perform oral ....oops; socially "incorrect"......uh.....verbal discourse with several of the folks like yourself who have proven their willingness to share the wealth with the younger, up and comers. If we are to remain a world leader in mfg., the baton must be passed.........

Mr. Cox....are you listening? Do you remember the days we once worked on the same team, you as a new to the industry youngster, I as the old fart? In an industry which is dead today--disk drive controller boards!!!! Such is the destiny of men. To go forth and forge friendships in mfg., only to revisit them some 20 odd years later. 'Tis a small world in Electronics Mfg.

Scott

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| | Scott, | | | | I do hurt easy. Be gentle, at least that's what I tell all the women in my life though quickly diminishing supply - oops. | | I do not happen to believe this statement. I have seen you dodge many a penned "dart" on this very forum. Since I just cannot picture a man of your obvious breadth of knowledge and willingness to share as a bawling, shaking inbecile, I would challenge you to present fact on this public forum. A photo would suffice. | | | | | Man, talk about memories. How about Seal Brite before Entek back in the late 60's and early 70's. The stuff almost worked. | | Know what? I was using seal brite as recently as 4 years ago, due to a customer's requirement---and I successfully used a no-clean paste on it for SMT!!!!! Interesting times...... | | | | | Paper phenolic. What a material! What boards! Ah, the days of punch and crunch revisited. | | Yes, I built the entire "Pong" program on XXXP in the early seventies.....for the younger crowd, Pong was the very first predecessor of today's Playstation and Nintendo video games. | | Not to mention Lowry Organ PCB's........ | | | Probimer, and all its problems still out performed DuPont's DF masks. I used to by Ciba's stuff, ilegally from friends, and mix and screen my own formulation just to get away from DF. | | Dry film had it's day. Until about '79, when I started putting my first LCC's down on FR4. It was then that I realized that dry film and Flutec PP11 vapor phase mat'l was not going to work well for me. Started looking elsewhere...... | | | I still love bright and shiny, though I've seen little of the stuff in the past few years. Times do change. Of course, not you or me. Maybe there's a message there. | | The dinosaurs didn't change, either Moonman. they're extinct today. Hmmmm....... | | | By the way, you aced me again with your latest posting. I was going to provide the same info concerning moisture sensitive stuff as I just went through another one. | | You are far too kind. I just guessed at that one. Got it out of the back of a Marvel Comic book. | | | Hell, I might as well stop posting because of you. If it weren't for Big Dave trying to taunt me, I'd probably just drift away. | | Moonman, I know you are patronizing me, and it hurts me. Your knowledge base is why I belong to this forum. The forum wouldn't be the same without you. Remember, many folks BEGGED you to come back when you made your liberating stance. You 'ole hippie, you. I'll bet you have waist length grey hair and a beard to match. I can see a muzzleloader and a coonskin cap, as well. Kinda ZZTopish........ | | | Keep up the good work and batten down the hatches as the huricane season is upon you just as the fire season starts here. | | My intent on staying semi-active on the forum is to perform oral ....oops; socially "incorrect"......uh.....verbal discourse with several of the folks like yourself who have proven their willingness to share the wealth with the younger, up and comers. If we are to remain a world leader in mfg., the baton must be passed......... | | Mr. Cox....are you listening? Do you remember the days we once worked on the same team, you as a new to the industry youngster, I as the old fart? In an industry which is dead today--disk drive controller boards!!!! Such is the destiny of men. To go forth and forge friendships in mfg., only to revisit them some 20 odd years later. 'Tis a small world in Electronics Mfg. | | Scott | Ah Yes, 'twas many a year ago, in a land of gambling and fast women. High upon the desert, I received the expert tutelage by the old master so wise and so old. Yup its a small world, Viva Gardnervill. And happy trail's to you, until we meet again....

MDCox

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| Ah Yes, 'twas many a year ago, in a land of gambling and fast women. High upon the desert, I received the expert tutelage by the old master so wise and so old. Yup its a small world, Viva Gardnervill. And happy trail's to you, until we meet again.... | | MDCox | The neon glow from the gambling establishments upon the sage flats of NV still lives, Mike. Although the facility we once scratched mutual heads together for hours upon end, only to find acidic mouse droppings had caused dendritic growth on a certain Radial machine's I/O cards no longer exists as we knew it.

Ah, and the fast women......I won't go there. Such fond mammaries...oops memories.

The "Tony man" is still in the biz; a VP of a contract mfg'er here in FL--sold a contract house he started after 3 years for millions.......and sits high upon his perch in the ivory towers as VP. Such a mentor he had in NV; remember the bronzed axe which hung on the wall behind our Ops Mgr's desk? Boy, I miss the daily floggings. I still hold the scars dear.

Scott

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| | Ah Yes, 'twas many a year ago, in a land of gambling and fast women. High upon the desert, I received the expert tutelage by the old master so wise and so old. Yup its a small world, Viva Gardnervill. And happy trail's to you, until we meet again.... | | | | MDCox | | | The neon glow from the gambling establishments upon the sage flats of NV still lives, Mike. Although the facility we once scratched mutual heads together for hours upon end, only to find acidic mouse droppings had caused dendritic growth on a certain Radial machine's I/O cards no longer exists as we knew it. | | Ah, and the fast women......I won't go there. Such fond mammaries...oops memories. | | The "Tony man" is still in the biz; a VP of a contract mfg'er here in FL--sold a contract house he started after 3 years for millions.......and sits high upon his perch in the ivory towers as VP. Such a mentor he had in NV; remember the bronzed axe which hung on the wall behind our Ops Mgr's desk? Boy, I miss the daily floggings. I still hold the scars dear. | | Scott | | Don't mean to interrupt the fun. I still own a home near the golf course South of Bentley. You can't be serious.

Carson Valley Inn be hanged,

Moonman

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| | Ah Yes, 'twas many a year ago, in a land of gambling and fast women. High upon the desert, I received the expert tutelage by the old master so wise and so old. Yup its a small world, Viva Gardnervill. And happy trail's to you, until we meet again.... | | | | MDCox | | | The neon glow from the gambling establishments upon the sage flats of NV still lives, Mike. Although the facility we once scratched mutual heads together for hours upon end, only to find acidic mouse droppings had caused dendritic growth on a certain Radial machine's I/O cards no longer exists as we knew it. | | Ah, and the fast women......I won't go there. Such fond mammaries...oops memories. | | The "Tony man" is still in the biz; a VP of a contract mfg'er here in FL--sold a contract house he started after 3 years for millions.......and sits high upon his perch in the ivory towers as VP. Such a mentor he had in NV; remember the bronzed axe which hung on the wall behind our Ops Mgr's desk? Boy, I miss the daily floggings. I still hold the scars dear. | | Scott | | This is my second attempt at it. I still own a home near the golf course South of Bentley. You guys can't mean you had your beginnings there.

Moonman

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| | | Ah Yes, 'twas many a year ago, in a land of gambling and fast women. High upon the desert, I received the expert tutelage by the old master so wise and so old. Yup its a small world, Viva Gardnervill. And happy trail's to you, until we meet again.... | | | | | | MDCox | | | | | The neon glow from the gambling establishments upon the sage flats of NV still lives, Mike. Although the facility we once scratched mutual heads together for hours upon end, only to find acidic mouse droppings had caused dendritic growth on a certain Radial machine's I/O cards no longer exists as we knew it. | | | | Ah, and the fast women......I won't go there. Such fond mammaries...oops memories. | | | | The "Tony man" is still in the biz; a VP of a contract mfg'er here in FL--sold a contract house he started after 3 years for millions.......and sits high upon his perch in the ivory towers as VP. Such a mentor he had in NV; remember the bronzed axe which hung on the wall behind our Ops Mgr's desk? Boy, I miss the daily floggings. I still hold the scars dear. | | | | Scott | | | | | This is my second attempt at it. I still own a home near the golf course South of Bentley. You guys can't mean you had your beginnings there. | | Moonman |

If Bentley is near Gerdnerville then Yup. That good ol Xebec, ahh what a fine place to be from. The scars do run deep, as deep as the Radial machines are in the ocean. For as a deep sea anchor they work pretty well. MD Cox

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| | | Ah Yes, 'twas many a year ago, in a land of gambling and fast women. High upon the desert, I received the expert tutelage by the old master so wise and so old. Yup its a small world, Viva Gardnervill. And happy trail's to you, until we meet again.... | | | | | | MDCox | | | | | The neon glow from the gambling establishments upon the sage flats of NV still lives, Mike. Although the facility we once scratched mutual heads together for hours upon end, only to find acidic mouse droppings had caused dendritic growth on a certain Radial machine's I/O cards no longer exists as we knew it. | | | | Ah, and the fast women......I won't go there. Such fond mammaries...oops memories. | | | | The "Tony man" is still in the biz; a VP of a contract mfg'er here in FL--sold a contract house he started after 3 years for millions.......and sits high upon his perch in the ivory towers as VP. Such a mentor he had in NV; remember the bronzed axe which hung on the wall behind our Ops Mgr's desk? Boy, I miss the daily floggings. I still hold the scars dear. | | | | Scott | | | | | Don't mean to interrupt the fun. I still own a home near the golf course South of Bentley. You can't be serious. | | Carson Valley Inn be hanged, | | Moonman | Carson Valley Inn, Wow they should have a plague there that says, "Mike Cox once Stayed here", Good Ol days

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| This is my second attempt at it. I still own a home near the golf course South of Bentley. You guys can't mean you had your beginnings there. | | Moonman

Ah, My moonie buddie......not our beginnings. But I was mid-stroke in the old career. Mike was in his second job in the biz. As I remember, he relocated to Gardnerville from Binghamton; Universal. I also got my start at Universal, twisting wrenches on the old T-hole stuff. But that was three lifetimes before Gardnerville.

Yes, it was 1984 /5 as I remember it......we are talking Xebec......Disk Drive controller Mfg'er extraordinaire, and Intel memory board add-ons as well. Corporate was out of Sunnyvale, CA. Our competition was Seagate and WD. We also had a Lehigh Valley, PA facility. This one was in Gardnerville, NV.....the garden spot located just down on the flats from Tahoe. Yes, right at the dogleg on the NV map. Good trout fishing, deer hunting, and womanizing. I did not last long there; the GM and I did not share the same "people skill" philosophies. His was management by intimidation, with a whip, an axe, and a LOUD voice.

I lived up past the golf course, in a rented home facing the front range of the Sierra Nevadas. I cannot recall the name of the housing area, but each home had an acre. Little Mikey was quite the sight with his tightly curled locks and boyish smile. He really had his hands full with the wild women out west.

Scott

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| | Carson Valley Inn be hanged, | | | | Moonman | | | Carson Valley Inn, Wow they should have a plague there that says, "Mike Cox once Stayed here", Good Ol days |

Mike, until 4 years ago when I built my current home and moved, I was STILL receiving invitations to their blackjack tournaments! Scott

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| | | Carson Valley Inn be hanged, | | | | | | Moonman | | | | | Carson Valley Inn, Wow they should have a plague there that says, "Mike Cox once Stayed here", Good Ol days | | | | Mike, until 4 years ago when I built my current home and moved, I was STILL receiving invitations to their blackjack tournaments! | Scott | | Man, you really go a string going with this one. I did some PCB consulting with Xebec in Silicon Gulch before and after it moved to Carson City and the big white mansion on highway 50.

The technology was a little different in those days, but not really? Xebec, and its prideful "owners" really turned your hard work into something worthwhile as an Inn in Minden/Gardnerville and a huge house in Smith Valley reported to be in excess of 30,000 square feet.

It's amazing our paths did not cross. Now they have. Go get em gentlemen - as I still do with the women in the valley and up at the lake - from time to time.

Enjoy,

Earl Moon

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