"No sale no service" accepted?

I wonder if the attitude of some manufacturers gets acceptance from their customers. Some say, if they did not earn selling a machine then they also don't want to service it. Does this affect users? Do you rather choose other manufacturers if you know of this business practice? Erhard Hofmann Email adopt@adopt.co.at

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| I wonder if the attitude of some manufacturers gets acceptance from their customers. Some say, if they did not earn selling a machine then they also don't want to service it. | Does this affect users? Do you rather choose other manufacturers if you know of this business practice? | Erhard Hofmann | Email adopt@adopt.co.at I have dealt with Manufacturers in the past who have made statement to that effect. I have had to get replacement parts, manuals, and support for this equipment and have ran into the same resistance. And for that reason I will not Buy equipment from these manufacturers new or used. My reasons are.. 1) A company should stand behind its equipment regardless if it sold it or if the user acquired it used. 2) The resale value of equipment coming from these manufacturers is lower than if it came from a (in my opinion) reputable company. These manufactures should consider the long term when supporting there equipment. I would think they would be happy to sell used parts for their equipment, and if you think about it somebody bought the damn thing new so they got their money. If anybody would like to see my short list of Manufactures that I know deal this way email me and I will be happy to pass on the inf. Mike

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| I wonder if the attitude of some manufacturers gets acceptance from their customers. Some say, if they did not earn selling a machine then they also don't want to service it. | Does this affect users? Do you rather choose other manufacturers if you know of this business practice? | Erhard Hofmann | Email adopt@adopt.co.at Erhard, I've found that there's quite a few companies that will show some hesitation when you ask to purchase manuals, parts, etc. from them if you weren't a regular customer. One one hand, I think it stinks, but on the other, I understand a little where they're coming from too. Coming from a users point of view, I would like to think that if I bought a certain brand of equipment that I could go to the dealer and buy anything I needed to repair and support the machine no questions asked. But the fact of the matter is, for a OEM dealer, the service and support side of the bussiness is probably the most expensive and difficult to maintain. As some people undoubtably know, EVEN if they have bought equipment directly from the vendor, service and support sometimes still leaves something to be desired. That's because it is no small matter to set up and maintain a GOOD service and support organization. If you ask people what it is they look for when they're deciding to choose equipment, many will say that it's not based purely on performance, or the initial price of whatever it is they're buying, but also on well they'll be supported while using the equipment. There's also been some occasions that I know of, where someone other than an authorized dealer has aquired equipment outside the U.S. and shipped it here and then undercut the prices that the same equipment is being sold for by the authorized distributors. The gray market importer has no overhead of a spare parts inventory, or service engineer salaries to pay. I'm not saying that I'm taking sides one way or the other, because like everyone else I'd like to be able buy something at rock bottom prices and also be able to go and buy spare parts, manuals, and what have you from the OEM dealer to keep the machine running. However, I also understand that the equipment vendors are in business just like everyone else is, and have to make certain decisions to protect it...not that I agree with all of the decisions, but I do feel sometimes they have valid reasons for what they do. -Steve Gregory-

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As an equipment vendor I can understand why some companys may choose not to deal with this type of equipment, I DO NOT AGREE WITH IT, but I understand it: stupidity, greed. As an OEM the cost of warranty and install is included in the sale price, if you want to buy spare parts, it, good business for us, we will take it. At Panasonic CREATE we even go a step further. For a fee we will inspect and provide a detailed report on a used machine and TRANSFER the ownership to you. Some vendor want to buy back their old machines and resell them as entry level systems, they make more money selling their feeders than on their machines so I really think the idea of not supporting a potential customer is dumb! Do you want to do business with a dumb company? | I wonder if the attitude of some manufacturers gets acceptance from their customers. Some say, if they did not earn selling a machine then they also don't want to service it. | Does this affect users? Do you rather choose other manufacturers if you know of this business practice? | Erhard Hofmann | Email adopt@adopt.co.at

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Steve: Lets face it "there are no Free Meals:, but all of the OEM manufacturer's that I work with go the extra mile to satisfy the customers needs. This includes added attention to detail prior to the sale, good quality installations and training, and constant followup after the sale to make darn sure the customer is happy and understands the equipment. With new technology there is always the learning curve that is difficult at best to over-come, but if the servic isn't there then the customer won't be either. I have known many companies that consider service and spare parts as a separate business profit center and get so dirty about it that they even want to charge the customer for "nuts and bolts", but trust me, the customer and potential customers will hear about this and business will slow down for that type of OEM company. Bottom line is "If something is so cheap it is hard to believe you can rest assured that there is something wrong. Best situation is to work closely with the vendors and gain a good working partnership. Our customers are our best sales tools! Wayne ps, got the microsoft internet explorer problem fixed........fun!

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| Steve: | Lets face it "there are no Free Meals:, but all of the OEM manufacturer's that I work with go the extra mile to satisfy the customers needs. This includes added attention to detail prior to the sale, good quality installations and training, and constant followup after the sale to make darn sure the customer is happy and understands the equipment. | With new technology there is always the learning curve that is difficult at best to over-come, but if the servic isn't there then the customer won't be either. | I have known many companies that consider service and spare parts as a separate business profit center and get so dirty about it that they even want to charge the customer for "nuts and bolts", but trust me, the customer and potential customers will hear about this and business will slow down for that type of OEM company. | Bottom line is "If something is so cheap it is hard to believe you can rest assured that there is something wrong. | Best situation is to work closely with the vendors and gain a good working partnership. Our customers are our best sales tools! | Wayne | ps, got the microsoft internet explorer problem fixed........fun! Hi Wayne! I wish there were more sales people that had your attitude, especially out here in the Silicon valley. But the fact is, out here there are so many companies all doing the same thing, that it creates quite a different atmosphere than the rest of the country has when it comes to service and support...it's just the sheer number of users out here that makes it difficult, even for big guys like Fuji. As a for instance, I've worked at smaller contract houses out here who in the beginning didn't have the kind of money to buy nice new machines. So they struggle and scrape enough money together to buy a used CP from one of the dozens of used equipment dealers out here. Then something happens with the machine that a factory trained service engineer needs to fix... good luck trying to get someone from Fuji to look at your machine...at least within a couple of weeks...that's just the way it is out here. If you're not a new equipment customer, you don't get good support, end of story. It's just not only Fuji, but Panasonic, Siemens, Electrovert, MPM, etc. as well. The valley here is unique in that there's such a high concentration of electronic companies out here, that everybody has to prioritize where best to use their resources. If you were managing a service organization and you had all your service engineers doing installations at Solectron and SCI, and I call up because I'm having problem with the CP-2 that I bought from Giant-Y, do you pull one of your engineers from doing the installations to come and look at my CP-2?...and maybe spend most of the day here trying to fix it? That's what I was talking about when I said I understand that sometimes companies have to make certain decisions to protect the business. From a users point of view I'm gonna be pissed that they won't send me a service engineer to look at my old, tired CP-2, but from a business point of view, I don't expect them to pull a engineer from doing installations at a customer who has just spent $5,000,000 on equipment. It's just a matter of resources and priorities...the business atmosphere out here creates that kind of situation. I don't know if it's like that anywhere else, but that's the way it is here in San Jose... Oh, I gotta question, who doesn't charge for hardware? You know, the nuts and bolts? Every OEM I've ever dealt with charges for EVERYTHING!...right down to "E-rings" and washers. -Steve Gregory-

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Dear Steve, the problem for me is not that a manufacturer sends his engineers first to his customers who just bought nice new equipment from him and only then to someone needing help for machines they bought used. The problem is if the manufacturer tells you: "You don't get documentation or any help for your used machine even if you pay a nice price for it". Best regards, Erhard

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Steve: Can't say that we do everything the proper way, but when possible, we do go the extra mile. I do not think it should make a difference if your are on the East or West side of the country, what matters is that the personal contacts are strong enough that every customer is "NUMBER ONE" I take a stand on supporting all of the customers regardless.. There are some customers that just try to always take advantage and many will tell you that I am the first one to let them know they have to deal fairly, same goes for principals and I tell them also. Sure, if a customer has just bought a brand new line, dropped $5m and the entire task force is there getting the line up, I would not expect them to drop everything and run off to support someone else, but I would expect them to contact the individual and explain the situation and get a person there as soon as possible. Most contract houses around here expect service as quickly as possible, not going to name any of them, but they are all here and all doing contract manufacturing. I find the work relationship is always good and the door is always open to come in and visit with them. If there is a problem I want them to call me at anytime night or day. I give out every phone number I have to our customers so they know how to contact me. I have had a few late night calls, and they are all worth it. Best thing engineers can do is get close to the service people, eye to eye, so to speak. Be fair about the problems you're having and pay a fair price for the service. As for nuts and bolts I feel one can only get so cheap and then the company is in trouble. Wayne

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