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I am real curious if anyone else out there is experiancing a... - Jan 15, 2003 by Doug Philbrick

Yep, Across the board! It seems as though the resources av... - Jan 15, 2003 by RDR

I am in Supplier Quality and it seems that the quality/servi... - Jan 24, 2003 by

We have had to return 6-8 lots out of the last 20 to the boa... - Jan 24, 2003 by Jon Fox

Hi Entering just to keep this tread alive, and see more ... - Jan 24, 2003 by

Hi Every one Very interesting Subject Nothing new to add ... - Jan 26, 2003 by

Hi Just keeping this alive to see if anyone else posts. ... - Jan 27, 2003 by

Thanks for the revival of the thread! I have to assume there... - Jan 27, 2003 by Doug Philbrick

Doug Philbrick

#23024

PWB Fabricators | 15 January, 2003

I am real curious if anyone else out there is experiancing a noticible increase in quality problems with their PWB fabricators. Your comments would be apreciated (leave company names out of the thread though)

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RDR

#23027

PWB Fabricators | 15 January, 2003

Yep, Across the board! It seems as though the resources available at our suppliers anyway have been diminished from the economy. But our orders and lead times are now getting shorter and shorter with more complex PCBs being demanded.

another day, another issue, life in the fast lane

Russ

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Kelly

#23155

PWB Fabricators | 24 January, 2003

I am in Supplier Quality and it seems that the quality/service has gone down with most of our current suppliers. The automotive industry lead times definitely impact the quality as well as many PWB shops downsizing in the US. The move to off-shore for cost cutting is also playing a major factor - service is slower, lead times longer, communication/language issues, slow response's to quality problems, lack of 8-D knowledge...where is the cost savings in all of that? I do have a couple US suppliers that are always willing to pull us out of a cruch and the service is much better...but only from a couple. : ) Are there any particular issues you are seeing more now specifically?

Good Luck, Kelly

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Jon Fox

#23159

PWB Fabricators | 24 January, 2003

We have had to return 6-8 lots out of the last 20 to the board house we (used to) use. From V-score cutting through pads to missing pads (and they say they electrically test our boards?!). I mean, come on, you can look at a PCB and see if there is a pad missing especially if you make boards for a living. Just like bank tellers and casino workers can usually spot a counterfit before anyone else...they handle money for a living. We have had similar problems with our stencil house as well.. ("we aren't familiar with those file formats...") B.S.!, what files do think I've been using for the last 10 years?! More importantly, what files do you think I've ben sending you for the last 2 years?

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MA/NY DDave

#23161

PWB Fabricators | 24 January, 2003

Entering just to keep this tread alive, and see more comments.

Yes I have seen a serious decay over many years. In addition to the supplier side getting worse, incoming inspection, receiving seems to be getting worse.

In addition to the decay in quality has gone the decay in communications. "What something is wrong?"

Recently I asked a supplier that actually receives PCBs / PWBs from many companies and forwards them. "Do you have any Dock to Stock suppliers?" The answer was none. This truely surprised me...

YiE, DDave

This message was posted via the Electronics Forum @

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Jkhaiar

#23166

PWB Fabricators | 26 January, 2003

Hi Every one Very interesting Subject Nothing new to add just to make it alive

I think it have to do a lot with the market now. The low demands in the market and price competition have lowered the QC budget. Some one has said it; a reputed and respected supplier is producing degraded quality just to make his customer happy with low prices. That all will change when the market pick up again Hope soon Regards

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MA/NY DDave

#23171

PWB Fabricators | 27 January, 2003

Just keeping this alive to see if anyone else posts.

It seems to me that this might be a degradation due to life cycles of all products/services as they progress from creating high profits to being driven down and down in price. Topped off with declining Volumes and OEMs still wanting to buy PCBs without knowledge.

As PCBs have become kind of a commodity item. -Cheap Labor is used -Lower Paid, Lower trained Engineers/Technicians are used -Manufacturers invest as little as possible In Intellectual/Training and Human Resources -Cheaper Materials are chased

-Lower and Lower prices are demanded by the OEMs Which keeps the spiral going downward.

As Volume do not grow or erode -Manufacturers remove non production human resources.

I forsee quality and communications degrading and getting more difficult to maintain quality.

This message was posted via the Electronics Forum @

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Doug Philbrick

#23174

PWB Fabricators | 27 January, 2003

Thanks for the revival of the thread! I have to assume there are quite a few factors creating this reduction of quality. I am not hearing about quality suffering in the assembly side of the industry here in the good ol' US but in the board fab side world wide? Us assembly guys need to keep kickin the board guys butt's and get them back in line. THEY'RE KILLIN ME!

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