Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design SMT Electronics Assembly Manufacturing Forum

Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.

One of a kind!

Hello all!! I currently have this thought, of maybe produ... - May 25, 2005 by

I would think the communication between the machine and feed... - May 25, 2005 by Dilbert  

There is no communication - a big cam hits the feeder & inde... - May 26, 2005 by Rob  

Even worse, you might be running into patents that prohibit ... - May 26, 2005 by

No one can stop you from making feeders. But unless they ar... - May 26, 2005 by gregp  

Yes I understand its precision, And I have been talking wit... - May 26, 2005 by nickanderson  

I wouldn't worry about patents except for those types of fee... - May 26, 2005 by gregp  

There are definately patents in force for many feeder assemb... - May 26, 2005 by

What if just the base of say a cp-6 was produced, including ... - May 26, 2005 by nickanderson  

At least cut your teeth on something that doesn't accurately... - May 27, 2005 by Rob  

Quick note on Hover Davis, I am not impressed with their ... - May 27, 2005 by Sr. Tech  

Nicholas Anderson

#34482

One of a kind! | 25 May, 2005

Hello all!!

I currently have this thought, of maybe producing my very own type of feeders. Say juki,panasonics,etc. but building,design,and production of my own. What would be preventing me from doing so? Let's say i wanted to build a Fuji CP-4 feeder, is there any rights to production on that design? I understand I cannot sell it as an original, but other than that, would I be breaking any laws? all info, will be very helpful. Thank you all

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Dilbert

#34494

One of a kind! | 25 May, 2005

I would think the communication between the machine and feeder would be the main drawback, not sure if the manufacturer will give you info on how they do this.

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Rob

#34500

One of a kind! | 26 May, 2005

There is no communication - a big cam hits the feeder & indexes it forward, then the camera looks at the nozzle to see if it got anything on it.

The precision is the problem.

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Base

#34508

One of a kind! | 26 May, 2005

Even worse, you might be running into patents that prohibit you from building the same stuff they are. Might wanna check that first, because I doubt that Fuji or whoever will grant you a license.

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gregp

#34514

One of a kind! | 26 May, 2005

No one can stop you from making feeders. But unless they are better and cheaper than the OEM you will not be successful. Feeders look simple(CP4 for instance) but there are many underlying design concerns that are not apparent to the naked eye. You will not be able to just copy a Fuji feeder (reverse engineer) and make it comparable in quality at a lower price. These feeders are currently being copied (counterfeited) in China and the quality is garbage. An example of a successful feeder manufacturer is Hover-Davis. They make a variety of feeders for different OEMs. Their feeders offer equal or better performance to the OEM feeders but they are not copies. Their designs are different and address customer issues with the OEM feeders. The question is, is there room for another Hover-Davis in the feeder market? Other feeder manufacturers exist for specialty feeders (tube feeders for instance). They are companies such as Component Express and Comtra. In general feeders for older platforms is a low margin venture due to the availablity of used feeders on the market.

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nickanderson

#34519

One of a kind! | 26 May, 2005

Yes I understand its precision, And I have been talking with handful's of people to discuss precision, design, pricing, and manufacture. The question I had was the patents, but as it was said "davis". As for precision, I would most likely be going with either stamped or laser for cutting. As for underlying parts, I am not sure at this current moment. I just want and idea's of design, or problems I could run into on the way.

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gregp

#34522

One of a kind! | 26 May, 2005

I wouldn't worry about patents except for those types of feeders which have patents such as the MyData Agilis feeders. I would worry about cost of tooling for $tampings. Long time for ROI there. Also pay attention to the burr side and shear side of the parts as they will not fit properly unless they are flat. I would worry about accuracy for laser cutting (on critical parts). An elliptical sprocket or non concentric bore will yeild sinusoidal error in pocket position that may be unacceptable for small parts. EDM is more accurate but more costly. Plan on 12 months from start to finish on development of a feeder. By finished I mean fully refined and cost engineered. Not just the first whack at it. And that is if it is all you are working on full time. Anything less than that and I have a place for you here if you are interested. Let us know how it works out for you.

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dggjr

#34524

One of a kind! | 26 May, 2005

There are definately patents in force for many feeder assembies. Specific mechanisms like waste tape take-up and sprocket indexing are covered by several patents. Fuji, Pan, Yamaha all have patents on the various aspects of their feeders. Best of luck in your endevor.

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nickanderson

#34537

One of a kind! | 26 May, 2005

What if just the base of say a cp-6 was produced, including fin. but inner workings,reel,etc. were already oem products. say i purchased all inner workings and so forth from another company, but the base design(provide all fits together properly) would be produced by my company?

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Rob

#34567

One of a kind! | 27 May, 2005

At least cut your teeth on something that doesn't accurately offer up a device 1mm x 0.5mm every 0.09 seconds. There is precision & there is precision. A lot of cash has been spent by a lot of people on trying to make decent 3rd party fuji feeders, and I've only ever seen one success story (and they looked like they'd been hijacked on the way from the Fuji factory).

Take the cash you were going to flush down the toilet & go and lie on a beach for a couple of years. (It'll cost the same & you'll have a good tan & be a lot less stressed)

Otherwise, good luck.

reply »


Sr. Tech

#34578

One of a kind! | 27 May, 2005

Quick note on Hover Davis,

I am not impressed with their Fuji IP feeders at all. They short out and blow IC's up in the MFU's They sell their own feeder set up stand to tell whether or not you have a shorted feeder. What the hell is up with that ?

reply »

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