Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.

SMTnet
»
Electronics Forum
»
PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback

Subscribe to Thread

Need some feedback about this PACE BGA Rework station.We are... - Feb 23, 2006 by Mike

I am not a current user of PACE TF1500 however, I have evalu... - Feb 23, 2006 by

If you would be so kind as to share what you ended up going ... - Feb 23, 2006 by

What is your budget limit? That is going to be a major fact... - Feb 23, 2006 by RDR

Before doing anything; contact ... - Feb 23, 2006 by

The 1700 has more manual operator input ability than the 150... - Feb 23, 2006 by RDR

Give the Ersa a look. Big advantages: closed loop and no 10... - Feb 24, 2006 by

So the APE is the real deal huh? What other systems was thi... - Feb 24, 2006 by RDR

James, Post your email address I will send you that infor... - Feb 24, 2006 by

What happens is: we generate a profile that works and it is... - Feb 24, 2006 by RDR

I know what you mean. Saw this in systems where cooling w... - Feb 24, 2006 by

Mike, Thank you so much, my email is ... - Feb 24, 2006 by

MikeL, I came across your post. We are also a small compa... - Apr 25, 2006 by

Take a look at bga rework station by advanced techniques. ... - Apr 25, 2006 by

Mike

#39922

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 23 February, 2006

Need some feedback about this PACE BGA Rework station.We are planning to buy it but I would like some comment from current users of this equipment.I already received a demonstration, look good but any other feedback will help me. I'll appreciate a lot

reply »

MikeL

#39931

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 23 February, 2006

I am not a current user of PACE TF1500 however, I have evaluated it along with other systems before making a decision. Wasn't a good system for us. We could not achieve consistency / repeatable results from board to board. Basically, we found it to be unstable. Also, preheating was a problem and so was cooling (no direct cooling through the top heater). Overall it required much more operator involvement and dependency than some other systems we looked at. I think that plays a big part on the quality of an end result. The biggest drawback for me was the lack of consistency. Thinking that maybe it was our particular unit (not calibrated well, needs adjustment, etc.) we contacted a couple other end users, some of whom had the same problems. Have not looked at TF1700 but I believe that it is essentially the same machine (looks to be exactly the same with same parameters).

Having said all of that, DO NOT go by what you read on this forum. Go see some other systems in operation and only make your decision then. That way you can truly compare one to another . . . on paper they are all are the best but in reality there a lot of differences making some system better than others.

reply »

James

#39947

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 23 February, 2006

If you would be so kind as to share what you ended up going with and why I would really appreciate it. I have to implement a rework station at my company but I don't have as much time and resources as I would like to evaluate all the available systems out there.

Thanks

James

reply »

RDR

#39950

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 23 February, 2006

What is your budget limit? That is going to be a major factor in what you end up with. We have a machine that is lower cost and it performs lower cost. It works and we always get the job done correctly but we cannnot use "canned programs" on it. it requires a skilled operator. The unit I found that eliminated these inconsistencies cost $40,000 more than our unit. We don't do enough BGAs to warrant the super does all machine.

So how many do you do? Are they big boards? prone to warp and sag? these are questions that you need to answer so you can make the right choice. because yes indeed they are all perfect performers in the sales lit.

Here are some of the major players in this industry.

Air-Vac eng. Pace OK industries SRT?? don't know if they are the same or bought or who they are now

reply »

Robert Joosten - PrintTec

#39951

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 23 February, 2006

Before doing anything; contact http://www.ape.com and ask for Casey Schue; he will tell you and show you the real bga rework equipment; the other brands just lack the power to do the job properly; I've seen too many people already buying inefficient equipment and finding out later to their regret

reply »

RDR

#39953

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 23 February, 2006

The 1700 has more manual operator input ability than the 1500. You can stop and start or whatever without waiting for the machine commands or cycles to initiate or finish.

reply »

Loco

#39967

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 24 February, 2006

Give the Ersa a look. Big advantages: closed loop and no 10 different nozzles. (I wont boast about 'how great' it is, give your local Ersa rep a call and decide for yourself!)

reply »

RDR

#39977

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 24 February, 2006

So the APE is the real deal huh? What other systems was this compared to and please post results and test parameters. Or is this possibly just a sales pitch?

reply »

MikeL

#39981

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 24 February, 2006

James,

Post your email address I will send you that information. Not sure if I still have the comparison matrix of the 6 machines we evaluated but will see if I can find it. Everyone has their own opinion however, saying that APE equipment is better than others is just nonsense. Thats like saying Chevy Malibu is better than Lexus LS. From my review, APE's system was by far the weakest one we looked at. Also, all of the systems we looked at were "closed-loop". Sales guys just like to throw these terms around and I honestly think most of them don't even know what it means.

Russ,

What do you mean by "we cant use canned programs" on your machine? Are you saying that you can't create a profile for the board/component, save the settings on the PC and recall then later on when you are reworking this same component/board at a later date (because it is not repeatable)?

reply »

RDR

#39983

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 24 February, 2006

What happens is: we generate a profile that works and it is fine. however, If we run this profile continously say for an ECO upgrade or something where we are not just doing 1 or 2 we find that as we continue on the profile gets hotter and hotter if you will.

ex. first three boards you can see balls going into reflow with 30 seconds left in our reflow cycle. the tenth board will be going into reflow with 10 seconds left in preheat cycle.

So we need to watch as we process and understand that we will/might have to shut profile down early or some other adjustment.

We can however, go back at a later time and run the profile and it works fine just as we programmed it.

reply »

MikeL

#39986

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 24 February, 2006

I know what you mean. Saw this in systems where cooling was not done through the reflow nozzle (i.e. PACE). What happens is that as you run 1-2 profiles, the metal parts along the pathway of the hot air (before it comes out of the nozzle) act as heat sink. As you do more profiles, the metal gets hotter and hotter so it no longer absorbs as much heat thus the part/board are exposed to a higher temperature sooner in your 10th profile than in your 1st. For this reason, the part reflows sooner in your 10th cycle. So as you said, if you are to come back later ( in 30 minutes? or so) after the 9th profile the nozzle and metal inside a heater will cool and it would be as if you are doing your 1st profile.

reply »

James

#39987

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 24 February, 2006

Mike,

Thank you so much, my email is jseagle@zworld.com. I know everyone says you should evaluate all the systems but sometimes for a small company with only limited resources it is very difficult. This will help me narrow my search to hopefully 2 vendors to demo their systems.

Thanks

James jseagle@zworld.com

reply »

Holly

#41162

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 25 April, 2006

MikeL,

I came across your post. We are also a small company looking at rework systems for BGA/QFN/CSP. .5mm worse case pitch.

We had a PACE 1700 on trial and we found it clunky and unreliable. We also evaluated a PDR 410 system and found it better in terms of alignment and profiling, but very manual.

Our budget is under 30K. Without us having to go look at 6 different systems, what, in your opinion, is the best system, under 30K for BGA/CSP?

Thanks,

Tom

reply »

TMC

#41164

PACE TF1500 or 1700 BGA Rework feedback | 25 April, 2006

Take a look at bga rework station by advanced techniques.

reply »