Rating SMT Machines

Hey Peterson,

Just as another resource, I've seen Circuits Assembly Magazine post equipment surveys in their website.

I believe there should be a link on their site at http://www.circuitsassembly.com

The survey index I noticed was at http://www.circuitsassembly.com/resource/survey_index.html

At least this can help you with gathering some technical data on each platform and address some of those additional concerns if you are still looking for data.

As for the ratings, being a rep I'll leave that to the equipment users.

Good luck, Sean D

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I have programmed/operated all but the siemens...

fuji-1 it is the fastest machine, and for high volume. Use also Unicam makes it easier to program. Now Im just talking the CP, the IP im not to fond of use something like the universal...

MYDATA-2 We just purchased a MY-12 and it seems like it will be good for low volume high mix product such as our proto builds. I also have Circuit Cam with the Pads converter.

Universal-3 I would not recommend this unless its just for a IP ie.. placing large components. I also recommend the single beam, we had problems with a double beam with it picking from one side and needing the other sides camera.

Siemens-4 I have heard there ok, but have not operated etc the machine.

Panasonic-5 I dislike this machine had nothing but problems with it so we got rid of it and kept/got more fuji....

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All of these machines are excellent. Each has survived the test of time and abuse to hold unique positions within segments of the industry. So, your question is difficult to answer without proper framing. It's like asking what is the best vehicle.

Here are the five I would like ranked:

Blue Bird TC/2000 School Bus, Mack RD688S Tri-Axle Dump Truck, Mini Cooper Sport LE, Dodge Caravan SE, Toyota Camry V6 XLE

Now, if I included a Ferrari Testarossa, it would be simple.

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I've worked with Panasonic, Fuji, Siemens, and Universal. I cannot rate Mydata since I have no experience with them.

Here are my ratings based on personal preference: 1=Siemens 2=Fuji 3=Universal 4=Panasonic

My reasoning behind this is: 1) Siemens has a new visual platform that is very easy to use when programming, they have the fastest cycle time when going into actual production, and the least amount of downtime due to feeder changes, etc.

2) Fuji also has a nice visual platform, but the tables are noisy when placing and cycle time never seems as good as advertised.

3) Universal does not have as good a platform, and downtime occurs often due to waffle pack changer on GSMs.

4) Panasonic. Poor platform, poor performance compared to other 3.

Just my personal opinions... N

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I like the MyData I have for high mix and prototype.

Have not used the others.

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I have three Mydata machines and I am very happy with them. The machines are easy to program as well as operate. They are not as fast as some of the other machines but if you change assemblies often you will likely make up some time in setup and changeover. Their tech support is good and the machines seem to be pretty reliable. I work for a contract manufacturer in Florida and we see alot of 100 to 500 piece runs and these machines are perfect for this type of work.

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Dear Peter,

I'm involve in mostly Japanese brand SMT machines. I would vote for Panasert.

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Hi ..

I have read with keen interest on the various replies on your query..

However, the most important thing that seems to be missing in the replies posted is reference to today's business scenario..which calls for a very fast ROI (return on investment). I have been in this industry for over 12 years now and have seen things change..a lot. I would have looked into the procurement on 2 basis..an early return on investment and cost Vs performance indexes. In todays trying business times, everything else is secondary. If I were you, I would have not even considered Fuji or Panasonic, Mydata or Universal. They are white elephants..Good to buy but difficult to maintain. Forget about fast ROIs. Only choice within what you have indicated is Siemens essentially due to throughput which reflects on faster ROI..

Nevertheless, my rankings would be: 1. Siemens 2. Mydata 3. Fuji 4. Universal 5. Panasonic

However, I would like to mention that..personally..I think today the one needs simple, easy to maintain and cost effective m/c something companies like Yamaha, Samsung, Juki, Impulse etc.. can provide adequately. One can buy these.. machine them for over a year...earn enough to buy more of them. If good prod volumes are achieved, squaring off the investment within 6 months is not a far fetched idea...

Cheers......

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> Hi all, > > I am doing some research on SMT > machines. I would like as many people as possible > to rate the following machines 1-5. The number 1 > would be the best, number 5, the least desirable > of the 5. I realize that there are dozens of > factors to consider when choosing a machine. If > you can, please limit your evaluation to the > cost, ease of use, tech support, > reliability. > > here are the 5 I would like > ranked: > > panasonic, fuji, mydata, siemens, > universal. I know this isn't a scientific > study...I am just looking for industry > preferences. > > Thanks!!!!

Peterson,

As you will note from your other responses, it is impossible to figure out what you are asking because of the lack of information in your question. After being in the industry for 20 years now, I have seen all of these machine manufacturers come and go with different models. The current business climate is, at best, tenuous. The models that you would have had recommended two years ago would be entirely based on throughput and speed rather on effective time of manufacturing. The climate has changed!!!

In your question, you failed to mention whether your environment is fast changeover or fast placement. Judging by the 5 candidates that you gave us you must be looking more at fast placement rather than fast changeover. As you know, each of the manufacturers mentioned make several speeds of machines with varying options. In the final analysis of which machine you buy, it really boils down to this: If the machine isn't running and actually placing parts then your company is losing money. The changeover and programming of your machines is VERY important. It really doesn't matter how fast your machine places parts if it takes several hours to set it up now does it.

The Siemens machine set, while fast at placement was designed primarily for the Telecom markets that required running high volumes with small components to place and limited mix. The basic design, while very good in many ways, has some caveats to it. It also has some quick changeover ideas that they have implemented into it.

The Fuji turret machines were designed for high volume and consequently weren't designed with quick changeover in mind. They have felt the quick changeover evolution and have tried to adapt to this countries need for it by designing machines that would fit that small CM niche. Their IP and QP systems were to bridge that gap but they fall short in many ways.

The Universal machines (I am assuming that you are talking about the GSM and not the Universal/Sanyo) was designed for flexibility and not speed. That is why they partnered with Sanyo on the chip shooter back in early 1990. The SANYO machine is still one of the best and should stand out for 0201 placement capability at high speeds.

The MYDATA systems have been almost exclusively focused on batch processing with some adaptation to in line a few years ago. Of the 5 candidates, this is the candidate with the quickest changeover. There are others that are faster and more capable in other ways but not in your list of 5. Their recent machines have tried to bridge the gap between quick changeover and fast but have found that ANY design has a niche that is pretty well defined (quick changeover) and seldom can be adapted to others (fast placement).

The Panasonic machines also have tried to keep up with a constantly changing industry. They have tried to adapt their machines to a quick changeover scenario with much of their efforts on designing toward 0201 placement. They have done a relatively good job in the last couple of years particularly on their software (Panapro). While their machines do have some strengths they also have some weaknesses. Namely their lack of integration with other off the shelf CIM products like Circuitcam.

As you can see, there are several items to consider when specifying a pick and place machine set. I would highly encourage you to seek out the counsel of someone in your immediate area that has extensive experience in these types of decisions. I have seen MANY engineers limit their career opportunities at their respective companies by choosing the absolutely wrong machine and buying from the best sales hype. One of the absolute biggest considerations in buying a machine of this type is service and support. I didn't even touch on this aspect because it varies widely within any region of the country.

My recommendation is to call the SMTA and seek out local, very experienced help.

Good luck!

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And how about Assembleon machines? http://www.assembleon.com

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Fuji: Wonderful machine, very robust, Hardware second to none. Lacking on software

Universal: Love the GSM, great platform. Sanyo HSP�s are ok, like the new 4796, not sure about the 4797 yet, have not had it long enough to give good data.

Siemens: Had nothing but headaches. Granted when I worked with them the HS-50 just came out and we were beta testing them. When they run the run great, but preventive maintenance too involved�

Panasonic: I have not personal worked with them, but through the grapevine. I heard the newer machine are very good. Software second to none. The older equipment is not something I would recommend.

Mydata: I have not worked with, but have done some research. I�ve heard that for the most part they are great machines for low volume, high mix production.

It�s hard to rate them in a particular order; they are all great in their own way. It depends on what your needs are, and how much space you have allocated for production lines�

Hope that helped in some small way�

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Hi,

An interesting tread, Neat reading.

Just pulled out a guide that was given at Nepcon West2000 entitled: Nepcon West 2000 Pick & Place Evaluation

You might want to call them to get a copy of the report.

As two or three others already pointed out Selection of a new machine, particularly one new to your shop (EMS or OEM) sometimes can't be made easy since you have to weigh all the parameters, sometimes including management.

Usually I have found that once a shop likes a machine for a particular usage, cost, or delivery they just keeping buying more of the same brand for that application. So you could have Fuji and Universal in the same shop or just Panasonic and to make the break to a brand new machine is sometimes difficult. Programming, Maintenance, Operator, Engineer training etc.

As someone else already noted it would be neat to read your a)Selection Criteria with weighting b)Components you intend to place c)Order size, Shop size etc

Good Luck

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