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Where to start with a new reflow oven

Where to start with a new reflow oven

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Up until this point, my company has been hand soldering all ... - Oct 13, 2003 by

HI Andrea- to answer Q: 1) Stencils can be order through v... - Oct 13, 2003 by CAL

Hi Andrea, Another good place to start in addition to the... - Oct 13, 2003 by Larry

As far as solder paste goes search no further! I have worked... - Oct 14, 2003 by

Here is a tip. Do an evaluation on materials. DO not trust... - Oct 14, 2003 by

Hi I am going to take another direction. Go to some cl... - Oct 14, 2003 by

What works in Alaska will probably not work as well in Flori... - Oct 15, 2003 by

Why would you have troubles if and when you switch? Isn't t... - Oct 16, 2003 by

We have been unimpressed with the capability and control of ... - Oct 16, 2003 by davef

Wait a minute I thought I said Celestica and a few others ha... - Oct 17, 2003 by

Dave, Its the APS (Automated Production Systems, Inc- Hun... - Oct 17, 2003 by PeteC

Okay, I'm here in Colorado and I used indium 92J and loved i... - Oct 17, 2003 by RDR

Dave and Pete No bad words against a good batch oven. I don... - Oct 19, 2003 by harotec.ch

Who said there was NO evaluation? The paste we chose was ev... - Oct 20, 2003 by

APS themselves is a good source for learning how to use this... - Oct 20, 2003 by severs

Hey Russ I hate to say it but you switched from Indium for n... - Oct 21, 2003 by

AXL, you could be right! I personally didn't switch they di... - Oct 21, 2003 by RDR

Andrea

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 13 October, 2003

Up until this point, my company has been hand soldering all of our assemblies. We are a high reliability manufacturer and work to the IPC-610 Class three/ target. We just received a Reflow Solder Batch Oven. It is a small oven, a Gold-Flow GF-B. I have been tasked with getting this running. I would ask for you help in answering some questions. 1. Where and how do I order stencils? 2. What type of solder paste to use that is ok per IPC? 3. Can you reflow both sides at one time without using glue? 4. What would be the greatest help in my learning curve? 5. Is there a way to also do through hole devices at the same time as SMD? Thank you in advance. Andrea

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 13 October, 2003

HI Andrea- to answer Q: 1) Stencils can be order through various vendors that manufacture stencils. You would need to have CAD data for the Stencil company to make them. You design engineer should have the CAD info. Also, the stencil design company can assist in type of apperatures best for your operation. 2)IPC does not dictate types of consumables (At least I do not think so). Addionally, some contracts spell out the type of solder paste used...i.e. Noclean. 3) YES, called double sided reflow as long as you do not have heavy components on the bottom side. remember only surface tension will hold these components on. 4)Profiling...knowing what the heat rating for components, solders, and PWB are can dial you process in. 5) Yes, Pin in paste is the process but this is tricky and will require a engineering assistance on hole diameter and pin type.Best bet would be to wait until you master SMT The introduce this at a later time.

These were very generic answers. managing process is had when first starting out.

Hopefully APS, oven manufacturer, can also assist you with your process inplementation.

Cal

Larry

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 13 October, 2003

Hi Andrea,

Another good place to start in addition to the oven manufacturer is your solder paste vendor. They can help you select the correct paste and give you the right reflow profile to use for that paste. Keep in mind that most vendors (paste, stencils, ovens) will be willing to give you help free of charge ( and they are pleased to do it) in order to secure your future business-

Larry

Axl

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 14 October, 2003

As far as solder paste goes search no further! I have worked for some huge CM's as a Process Engineer and a lot of them have put thousands of hours of Engineering time and evaluation just to come up with the same answer every time. For no-clean it is hands down Indium SMQ92J; it has unbelievable stencil life and nice solder joints even in high humidity environments! As far as water soluble it is Kester's R560 or R562. You have to be careful with the 562 it tends to do strange things with fine pitch and J-leaded parts after re-flow watch your profile! If profiling is a problem for you use the Kester R560. But as far as no-clean the studies have been done for you, go with SMQ92J Indium! You can contact a sales rep for both of these companies and they will give you a couple of free samples to try to see if you like it. Have fun!

Dean

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 14 October, 2003

Here is a tip. Do an evaluation on materials. DO not trust what anyone says about solder paste. There are just too may "experts" out there peddling the brand of the week.

You can begin with the brands listed, but do your homework.

You know your process, you needs. Anyone on the net who tells you your needs without a detailed questionaire is a carpt-bagger in my opinion. And yes, I have evaluated the materials listed...there are other choices which may fit your needs in ways we can not imagine. That's your job.

MA/NY DDave

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 14 October, 2003

Hi

I am going to take another direction.

Go to some classes, and buy some of the books, or hire a consultant to get you up fast. A consultant would be my first choice for speed and accuracy.

National Training Center for Microelectronics in Bethlehem, PA is one place that I actually worked for a spell, SMTA has certification classed by PhilZ, and ?? (dang) and a few other places exist for the small manufacturer.

YiEngr, MA/NY DDave

This message was posted via the Electronics Forum @

blnorman

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 15 October, 2003

What works in Alaska will probably not work as well in Florida. We have solder paste vendors give us direction with their specific paste, but we also impart our required process parameters on their paste.

For instance, here in Alabama in the summer it gets humid so resistance to humidity is important to us. As a high volume manufacturer, print speed is also important.

If you tailor your process around a paste, you'll have troubles if and when you switch.

Dean

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 16 October, 2003

Why would you have troubles if and when you switch? Isn't that the point of materials evaluation? Understanding the impact and material capability BEFORE "betting the farm on it". I would never stake my career on a solder paste without an Engineering evaluation, limited introduction, complete introduction process. Too risky otherwise.

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 16 October, 2003

We have been unimpressed with the capability and control of temperatures in batch ovens. We are unfamiliar with the oven you selected.

Consider investing and using in a external temperature monitor [profiler].

AXL

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 17 October, 2003

Wait a minute I thought I said Celestica and a few others have done the Engineering evaluations on a list of 10 top solder paste's and Indium SMQ92J and Kester's R560&562 came out on top. First you say 'don't trust all of the so called experts on this site' then you say 'Understanding the impact and material capability BEFORE betting the farm on it'? Pull your head out of your ass and listen to what people are saying. The Engineering is done on these two solder pastes' including random environmental testing. Everyone in the Industry knows Indium SMQ92J is the best in the industry, that's why they use it in Mexico! I used it in NEW England so there is your "impact and material capability" study. Like I said get a sample and see for yourself, don't listen to the voice of doom over here.

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 17 October, 2003

Dave,

Its the APS (Automated Production Systems, Inc- Huntingdon Valley PA) oven -

www.apsgold.com/reflow.htm

Go to GF-B

I agree on your comment on batch ovens.

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 17 October, 2003

Okay, I'm here in Colorado and I used indium 92J and loved it. My test dept. hated it! It leaves a pretty large amount of residue that apparently increased the pin maintenance. The company I worked for actually switched from this paste to another brand for this and other reasons. I am not saying anything bad about the Indium paste but, it goes back to "evaluating prior to betting the farm" Some customers don't like the residues left behind, some don't care, different types of pins in test equipment, etc... What you can assume is that the Indium will process extremely well through the manufacturing process as will the Kester products, Hell, the new WS709 from Alpha is some mighty fine paste from what I have seen so far.

Russ

harotec.ch

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 19 October, 2003

Dave and Pete No bad words against a good batch oven. I don't know the APS-oven mentioned but check out the description of the unique temperature-feedback system in our Ecosold at http://www.reflowsystems.com/press/PressReleases.pdf .

As a matter of fact, it's the only reflow oven on the market that can control temeperature on the print at any time in the production cycle. Profiles are made by mouse-click and the sensor guided heaters adapt their power to the profile they have to follow. The ideal batch oven for labs and varying small and medium runs and especially suited for BGAs and leadfree pastes. If you're looking for a reflow oven, visit. Lo Stone

blnorman

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 20 October, 2003

Who said there was NO evaluation? The paste we chose was evaluated based on a 20 point test score as well as material compatibility. Once we introduced it to manufacturing each line had problems. For one manufacturing treated it as a drop in replacement, which it wasn't. The paste has a lower viscosity than the previous paste and these problems didn't manifest themselves in the evaluation. Printing a couple hundred boards is far different than 3000 per line with 15 lines all having different lay-outs, components, etc.

Don't base your change on what the solder paste vendor says, but use their input to help set up the process.

severs

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 20 October, 2003

APS themselves is a good source for learning how to use this oven. Have you talked to them?

AXL

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 21 October, 2003

Hey Russ I hate to say it but you switched from Indium for no reason! If you were getting residue then your oven profile was off! Your flux should have burned off if it was done correctly, that's the purpose of "no-clean".

Where to start with a new reflow oven | 21 October, 2003

AXL, you could be right! I personally didn't switch they did it after i left. Is it possible that indium might have changed in the last couple of years? I remember Indiums specs stating 40% post residue? This was quite a bit higher than some others.

Oh well, I still like the paste and will use it when doing no-clean.

Russ

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