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CP6 Maintenance

Views: 11931

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum. I just got back into ... - Jan 18, 2006 by Daxman  

It's been a few years since i worked on a CP machine but you... - Jan 19, 2006 by

St17 and 19. One thing you could do is to swap heads and ... - Jan 19, 2006 by

We've checked the Amplifiers, and the optics and they seem t... - Jan 19, 2006 by Daxman  

i think it's more likely to be greasy/dirty shaft clutches, ... - Jan 20, 2006 by

i have a problem similar to Daxman where cp6 usually having ... - Jan 21, 2006 by

sorry, st17 not st19 ... - Jan 21, 2006 by

don't use any lubrication in the clutches, they should be cl... - Jan 23, 2006 by

We use an alignment jig {from Fuji I believe} that checks an... - Jan 31, 2006 by Chad  

You may also make sure to use the adequate lubricants. _Have... - Jan 31, 2006 by

Hello, Please call 319-392-4674 8 to 5 CST. for all Fuji... - Jan 31, 2006 by

Are you seeing this problem with the nozzles after an error ... - Feb 01, 2006 by

You guys hurting for money again Bill or Rex? Stop advertisi... - Feb 02, 2006 by

Daxman, The noise you are hearing is a worn out coupling ... - Feb 03, 2006 by Sr. Tech  

Sr Tech could be right about the C-AXIS coupling, i've seen ... - Feb 06, 2006 by

Hi guys, Sorry I haven't posted in awhile...but here are ... - Mar 28, 2006 by

Dax, You need to clean out those clutches. Even if they see... - Mar 29, 2006 by Sr. Tech  

Find you a good degreaser to clean the clutches with. Fuji u... - Mar 29, 2006 by

I do not reccomend spraying anything into those clutches. Th... - Mar 30, 2006 by Sr. Tech  

Obviously you are not as experienced as you think so I will ... - Mar 30, 2006 by

Also why I am at it. In the book CP-6 Series Maintenance Man... - Mar 30, 2006 by

Fuji has said a lot of things in the past, then changed it l... - Mar 30, 2006 by Sr. Tech  

So you use the dogbone alignment jig and the 3mm allen wrenc... - Mar 30, 2006 by

I bet my bicepes are bigger than yours. Just kiding. I do ... - Mar 30, 2006 by Daxman  

It could be related but it is kinda hard to tell from just t... - Mar 31, 2006 by

I'm not sure if we are on the same page here....maybe i'm lo... - Mar 31, 2006 by Daxman  

DAX ! You don't need to remove the entire shaft assembly to... - Apr 01, 2006 by Sr. Tech  

Hey Sr.Tech, thanks for the heads-up. I'm familar with the ... - Apr 03, 2006 by Daxman  

shouldn't be if you put them all back in in the order they c... - Apr 03, 2006 by

I agree. If you put them back in the same place you should... - Apr 03, 2006 by Sr. Tech  

Okay, we got the machine back together about 2 weeks ago, cl... - Apr 17, 2006 by Daxman  

I think your refering to the sleeve. It is held in with loct... - Apr 21, 2006 by newton  


Daxman

#39197

CP6 Maintenance | 18 January, 2006

Hello everyone! I'm new to this forum. I just got back into an SMT career after a 4 year break, and it feels good to be back. Anyways, I'm doing some maintenance work with a Fuji CP-645. It has a few problems that I am currently unable to isolate, and was hoping a few of you would be able to help out. Firstly, after being around new, well maintained fuji CP machines for years I immediately noticed that this CP-645 is extremely noisy. When running at full speed, it sounds a littly grindy, and rough although the placement is excellent. When manually jogging the cam axis, you can hear a vibration through about 50 degrees of the rotation. Almost like dragging a table across the floor. The vibration really sounds like it's coming from the entire cam box. screwdrivers as stethoscopes aren't a big help to locate where it is coming from. Anyone ever encountered this before?? Secondly, we are getting a lot of Station 17 and 19 nozzle change errors. I'm certain it's not the optical sensors or the optic amps. The placing head is rotated just slighty off of zero, and it causes the reflective surfaces on the nozzle windmil to be non-perpendicular to the sensors. I seem to remember maintenance dudes struggling with this problem on some of the lines I used to work on several years ago. Any information that anyone is able to provide would be extremely appreciated. Thanks all,

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dougs

#39201

CP6 Maintenance | 19 January, 2006

It's been a few years since i worked on a CP machine but your st17 & 19 errors are probably down to grease in the clutches at the top of the shafts, if too much grease is put onto the turret gear during maintenance it tends to spray into these clutches, try cleaning them out with some de-greaser, if that doesn't work you'll need to take out the shafts that are causing the errors and clean them with the shafts out. noy sure about the noise on the cam, could be a few things, you may have a collapsed rocker bearing on one of the st cam's, might be worth checking these out first.

good luck

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aj

#39202

CP6 Maintenance | 19 January, 2006

St17 and 19.

One thing you could do is to swap heads and see if it is related to a certain head.

Also, I have changed faulty amplifiers in the past so make sure you are getting the signal at the end of each fibre optic cable.

aj

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Daxman

#39210

CP6 Maintenance | 19 January, 2006

We've checked the Amplifiers, and the optics and they seem to be finctioning just fine. The issue doesn't seem to be related to specific heads. The errors show up often, and on random heads. Do you think this could be faulty reverse theta motors?

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dougs

#39230

CP6 Maintenance | 20 January, 2006

i think it's more likely to be greasy/dirty shaft clutches, stand at the front of the machine and use the cam handle to turn the cam, while your doing this push up gently on the black top section of the shaft and try to turn the shaft, it shouldn't really turn when you do this, if it does it's defo the clutches. if they are ok i'd start looking in the cam box, your rocker for st12(fine theta return) may be set wrong, or could have a crushed bearing(might explain the noise) check the setting of the cam gap, if its changing all the time this would point to a damaged bearing, or it may just be set wrong. you could also check the air solenoid at st13?? (theta return) if it's leaking it may not make the full 90deg.

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vincent

#39251

CP6 Maintenance | 21 January, 2006

i have a problem similar to Daxman where cp6 usually having problem when it run at high speed, the head seems to have problem returning back to its origin at st12 and stop at st15 and st19 for nozzle change error, when rotating the head by hand, some of them seem abit tight and some lose, how do i eliminate the problem? i knew that i should clean the clutch when the head getting lose when rotate by hand, so what about those which are too tight to rotate? what sort of lubrication should i used?

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vincent

#39252

CP6 Maintenance | 21 January, 2006

sorry, st17 not st19

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dougs

#39263

CP6 Maintenance | 23 January, 2006

don't use any lubrication in the clutches, they should be clean and dry.

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Chad

#39388

CP6 Maintenance | 31 January, 2006

We use an alignment jig {from Fuji I believe} that checks any rotational offets from the shaft to the head. The bottom of the jig fits onto the head while the top slides around the top "what I call" the crown gear. I've had several instances where a slip in this alignment is enough to cause these errors. And as several here have already stated, clutches should be clean. Good luck.

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Miguel Sangabriel

#39415

CP6 Maintenance | 31 January, 2006

You may also make sure to use the adequate lubricants. _Have you made the 10,000 hours maintenance?

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EX FUJI GUY

#39417

CP6 Maintenance | 31 January, 2006

Hello, Please call 319-392-4674 8 to 5 CST. for all Fuji technical support issues. We have the best guys.

WE are SMT Research.

reply »

kent

#39419

CP6 Maintenance | 1 February, 2006

Are you seeing this problem with the nozzles after an error stop? Well check station 15 confirm nozzle clutch origin. It will cause this problem. If you rotate a shaft (with the machine stopped) 45 degrees and start you will get return theta off and confirm that station 15 isn't operating right. If the cam rotates back or gives a station 15 (depending on your firmware) there could be other less obvious problems. Like stated earlier having greas in the cluth bearings or on the clutch will cause a problem. If your seeing no placement problems station 5 the camera and pre and fine theta are good. Also check the shafts with the bone jig. Obvious other problem is with the reflective disc. Scratches will ruin them. You can find some nozzle referbers that will fix them. It sounds like you are checking most of the obvious though, station 12 and 15 sensors are probably the problem. Also the fiber optic for one sensor could be reversed. You should see the light from the center not the outside edge. On your cam box. Clean out the old lube and relube the hell out of it. Use a grease gun for all fittings you find. We had a cp643 the squeeled on the from the air cylinders on station 3 and 13. For some more when you start hearing a loud clank during operation while cutting the large springs do wear out. Its been a long time but I think Fuji did something to the firmware to correct a vibration or noise problem in the cam. You should be running MC1.37 with vision at 3.00.

Good luck

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____

#39493

CP6 Maintenance | 2 February, 2006

You guys hurting for money again Bill or Rex? Stop advertising and share your knowledge if you have any on the subject at hand.

reply »


Sr. Tech

#39498

CP6 Maintenance | 3 February, 2006

Daxman,

The noise you are hearing is a worn out coupling on your large C-axis motor. The pins get loose after a while and they make noise. We had the EXACT same problem.

Your station 17 and 19 errors are most likely from dirty windmill sensor dogs or varnish in the shaft clutches. The easiest way to fix the clutches is to get in between them with a cotton swab and IPA. Scrubb them out good and you should be fine. The correct way to do this is to dismantle the clutch and clean it, but it is a major pain in the ass.

Make sure you post when you fix it. I am curious to know if I was right.

Good luck... Sr. Tech

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dougs

#39525

CP6 Maintenance | 6 February, 2006

Sr Tech could be right about the C-AXIS coupling, i've seen that happen before as well, although the noise happened when the cam was sitting still at 0deg, not when it was turning, the noise was from the motor hunting for position.

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daxman

#40699

CP6 Maintenance | 28 March, 2006

Hi guys,

Sorry I haven't posted in awhile...but here are the details.. The noise in the cam box is the C-axis coupling. (Sr.Tech was right) Applying a little oil to the coupling pins killed the noise, but cam back in a few hours. We are in the process of replacing the coupling. The Station 17 an 19 errors are a tricky one. We've cleaned the windmill sensors, and it didn't help. When the machine stops, and I inspect the head that failed, it is rotated off of center a few degrees. It appears it's not making the +/- full 90 degree reverse rotation at station 13. The sensors at stn 17 and 19 won't read the windmill if it's not perfectly centered. Placement is alright, so I suspect it's post station 11 problems. By using a log, we found that all the heads eventually fail, so it's not a specific head. Using the "bone jig" prooves all the heads are parallel or square. All the clutches seem okay.. Still stumping us, but I think we'll order some alignment jigs and go through every station. Speaking of alignment jigs, any of you have any to sell? Talk to you all later..

reply »


Sr. Tech

#40706

CP6 Maintenance | 29 March, 2006

Dax, You need to clean out those clutches. Even if they seem OK they can still get varnished up and cause minute alignment problems.

I think I mentioned before that you can get in there with a Q-tip, but the true way to get them perfect is to take them apart.

Unless you have been trained on how to do this, I reccomend that you do not attempt it. It can be tricky, and you can drop stuff behind the turret crown if you are not careful.

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Tech

#40729

CP6 Maintenance | 29 March, 2006

Find you a good degreaser to clean the clutches with. Fuji used to ship Threebond with the machines but quit due to negligence on the part of the users if I had to guess. I believe the number was Threebond 2706. Now make sure you take a shop rag or something similar and wrap the backside of the clutches with before you spray them to prevent spraying this stuff everywhere. If you get this on the ring gear or anywhere else it will remove the grease on the machine. Easy way to do it is to pull down the top of the spline shaft which should pull the clutch down enough to be able to spray the degreaser into the clutch assembly itself. After you do this you should feel the clutches tighten up considerably. This will buy you some time before you actually have to drop them down to clean them but ultimately you will have to drop them down and clean them thoroughly.

Also when you do decide to drop the clutches down you will want to make sure you break them lose at the very top which is actually the bottom section of the clutch assembly. This will require a thin 5.5mm wrench if I remember correctly. You can buy one from fuji or just grind one down. Make sure you dont grab the windmill to bust the clutches lose or you risk the possibility of busting the shaft lose in a spot that you didn't intend on. I always found this easiest to do right before the pick up station. Like was said earlier just be careful and do not drop the washers and good luck in starting the allen screw back in when you tighten them up. That can be a real pain to get started at times. Good luck.

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Sr. Tech

#40747

CP6 Maintenance | 30 March, 2006

I do not reccomend spraying anything into those clutches. There is a greased bearing in there that cannot run dry.

Also there is a very specific way to dismantle the clutches, and it does not require a 5.5 mm wrench in any part of it.

Dax, if you need further help E-mail me and I can assist you. I have been trained by some very experienced talented Fuji mechanics.

reply »

Tech

#40761

CP6 Maintenance | 30 March, 2006

Obviously you are not as experienced as you think so I will help you out a bit.You are correct on the size of the wrench. I was trying to recall from memory but the wrench size is 8mm. The odd size I recalled came from the other side of the wrench that was purchased from Fuji. Please forgive me.

First off I find it odd that when Fuji use to set up new CP6's they would use this degreaser to clean the clutches if they gave 17th and 19th station errors from the factory. I also find it odd that it use to come with the machines if you are not supposed to use it. With that in mind you obviously do not spray the degreaser up into the portion of the clutch with the bearing in it. Any waterhead ought to be able to figure that much out. There is no way you could pull the clutch down far enough to do that without dismantling it in the first place. You are only spraying degreaser on the bottom section of the clutch that creates the "friction". Fuji calls this part a shaft and there part number is WPH0913. Also on the bottom of this same part is a 8mm spot for a wrench where you need to bust it loose if you decide to take the shaft completely out. That is the spot I was talking about earlier. Not at the top coupling (Fuji Part # UA-25FUJ-T), not at the spline shaft (Fuji Part # WPH0512 and WPH5060), and not at the bottom coupling (Fuji Part # UA-25FUJ-T) and definitely do not put a crescent wrench on the windmill when you are trying to break it loose or any of the previous joints could come loose. So in other words you put your allen wrench in the piece that Fuji calls a clutch ( Fuji Part # WPH0384) and your 8mm wrench on the shaft( Fuji Part # WPH0913) and you can break it loose and drop the spline shaft assembly down far enough to be able to clean the "friction" portion of the clutch thoroughly. If that is not detailed enough for you. TS

reply »

Tech

#40762

CP6 Maintenance | 30 March, 2006

Also why I am at it. In the book CP-6 Series Maintenance Manul ( Fuji Part # MNT-C060-11.3E ) in Chapter 4 page 4-1-11 it says " The clutches should therfore be cleaned regularly, using the grease cleaner (ThreeBond 2706) provided with the machine." It also goes on to say "Pull the outer shaft of the nozzle rotation axis downward, then wipe the tapered clutch clean using a cloth which has been wetted with grease cleaner."

So since you don't recommend spraying anything on them how do you explain Fuji's own documentation. Sometime real life experience is a much better trainer than some of the techs that have worked at Fuji. I hope your training doesn't include much more info like you just passed along.

reply »


Sr. Tech

#40765

CP6 Maintenance | 30 March, 2006

Fuji has said a lot of things in the past, then changed it later on. Just for the sake of argument....The guys that have trained me worked at Fuji for a minimum of 12 years.

Not quite sure what Tech is talking about, but I do not recommend doing what he is describing. You use the dog-bone alignment jig to and a 3mm allen to pull the clutches apart.And I still don't agree with shooting solvent into them. (Although it may work)

And, Mr. Tech...there is no need to be a wise ass. I have worked with these machines "hands on" for years. How many machines do you think the guys at Fuji actually worked on before writing that clutch cleaning procedure?

Anyone reading this certainly doesn't have to listen to what I say. They can use your method if they feel it is better. I am just offering what has worked for us flawlessly for years.

Regards, Sr.

reply »

Tech

#40771

CP6 Maintenance | 30 March, 2006

So you use the dogbone alignment jig and the 3mm allen wrench to break them apart. The dog bone alightment jig would keep the rest of the joints from breaking loose while you loosened the allen wrench. This is basically the same thing I described using the 8mm wrench. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. I only use the jig when I put them back together but I can see that working. It's funny to me that once presented with Fuji documentation you suddenly don't take such a hardline stance on your recommendations and say that people can choose to use them if they like. I just offered information that poses a quick fix that sometimes is necessary when you don't have time to spend hours dropping the clutches completely down and their is a line supervisor or worse screaming to get the machine working.

And like you I was just offering information that has worked flawlessly for me as well. You were belittling my knowledge by saying you were trained by Fuji and not to do what I said. So in short don't be so closed minded about what someone else is offering as it may work in real life situations too and I apologize for offending you.

reply »


Daxman

#40775

CP6 Maintenance | 30 March, 2006

I bet my bicepes are bigger than yours. Just kiding. I do appreciate the help and advice each one of you gave. I should also mention that during the production cycle, our cp6 gets to a point where it kind of just stops...almost like it's thinking...and then starts back up again. It looks weird to watch because when it stops, the cam kicks back..then it starts again. It will do this several times per board. Do you think it's still related to grease in the clutches, or another seperate issue? I'll be sure to post and let you all know how the maintenance went. We are, by the way, taking off each placing head and cleaning them seperatly. Do we need to calibrate the placement after we replace all the heads?

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Tech

#40779

CP6 Maintenance | 31 March, 2006

It could be related but it is kinda hard to tell from just this info. A lot of times if a clutch gets misaligned so bad that the machine has no idea where it is the machine will stop and turn the clutch several times trying to find its home point. It locates this by the black dot on the clutch itself. You should see the machine turning the clutch if this is your issue at I believe station 13 which should just be to the left of the placing station which is 11. If they have slipped so bad that the clutches don't engage correctly it will more than likely turn and never find its origin and then give you a unknown nozzle error. If this is the issue cleaning the clutches will remedy this.

Since you are dropping the clutches down the only other thing I would remind you of is to not pull the spline shafts apart. I have seen some techs do this and the spline shafts are loaded with ball bearings that will fall out everywhere forcing you to replace the entire spline shaft. As far as the placement calibration, it will not need to be recalibrated by just dropping the clutches.

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Daxman

#40789

CP6 Maintenance | 31 March, 2006

I'm not sure if we are on the same page here....maybe i'm lost in the terminology. We are pulling the entire placing head. The Windmill, the shaft, the clutches...the entire thing. I'm not sure if this is what you mean by, "dropping the clutches" but it seems the only way to drop the clutch, is to pull the entire placing head. That said, will I need to do placement accuracy tests and re calibrate it? arrrgg....14 heads left to go, and my back is killing me... lol. I'll keep ya'll posted.

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Sr. Tech

#40799

CP6 Maintenance | 1 April, 2006

DAX ! You don't need to remove the entire shaft assembly to clean the clutches. You can just drop the top portion of the spline out to get to them.

It seems as if you have already taken off several shafts. I would HIGHLY reccomend that you do not go any further until you talk to someone on the phone about this. You can break stuff if you make a mistake. The LM bearings can drop off the back of the shaft assy....when that happens you are screwed. You also have to make sure that you reconnect the vacuum hoses properly. If you notice..they are in a "whirl" pattern.

My final note to you is that you call someone before you go any further.

If you are in the US then I would give SMT Research a call. I have dealt with them for several years and always had good luck with them.

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Daxman

#40803

CP6 Maintenance | 3 April, 2006

Hey Sr.Tech, thanks for the heads-up. I'm familar with the removal and installation of the shafts, as well as the precautions to take...It's not only the clutches I'm trying to clean; the entire thing is way past due for a PM. I'm trying to determine how long the machine will be down, and wanted to know if anyone knew if I would need to remeasure the placing accuracy. Do you feel the placing accuracy would be affected enough by this to warrant re-calibrating the placement?

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dougs

#40806

CP6 Maintenance | 3 April, 2006

shouldn't be if you put them all back in in the order they came out.

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Sr. Tech

#40808

CP6 Maintenance | 3 April, 2006

I agree. If you put them back in the same place you should be fine. The way you measure/calibrate placing accuracy is by running PAM. This program determines any error in the shafts.

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Daxman

#41013

CP6 Maintenance | 17 April, 2006

Okay, we got the machine back together about 2 weeks ago, cleaned the clutches and measured the placement accuracy. We are back up 100%, and have not seen any stn 17 & stn 19 nozzle errors. Thanks guys!! 19 of the 20 clutches are really tight; they don't move easily when turned. One of them however, is quite loose. I've re-cleaned it several times and it won't tighten up. I'm hoping it the bottom portion of the clutch (on the shaft) but have you ever heard of the top portion (attahed to the turret gear) wearing out? It's welded, or is a part of, the turret gear so It'd be pretty bad news if this were the case. Does anyone recommend de-glazing them with a certain abrasive?

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newton

#41111

CP6 Maintenance | 21 April, 2006

I think your refering to the sleeve. It is held in with loctite 262 or something. You can set up a bearing puller with a socket to pull it out around station 2-3. Fuji will drop the whole gear out to do this. Too much for a few sleeves.

reply »

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